[arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use

Milton L Mueller mueller at syr.edu
Mon Dec 15 13:27:56 EST 2014

Jo and Steven:
As the shepherd for 2014-1 I am having trouble understanding the relevance of arguments about needs assessment to the Out of Region Use proposal. That proposal does not change needs assessment policies. 

Here is a link to the latest draft of 2014-1. Do you have any comments specifically about 2014-1? 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-
> bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jo Rhett
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM
> To: Steven Ryerse
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
> On Oct 27, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-
> networks.com> wrote:
> > If in the spirit of trying to prevent fraud non-fraudulent requests get
> rejected, then Arin's mission stops being fulfilled.  I think it is important
> to make sure the mission is respected first and stopping fraud second
> or third or fifth or whatever.  We could stop all fraud by stopping all
> allocations but of course that makes no sense.  I would also point out
> that even when fraud happens Arin's Mission is still being fulfilled.
> I completely disagree. There are dozens if not hundreds of people with
> non-fraudulent requests who get denied for insufficient justification.
> That is ARIN doing their job successfully in my mind. If widespread
> fraud occurs and ARIN does not take action, then I feel strongly that
> ARIN would not be doing their job.
> > Of course maybe if the needs tests were loosened fraud would be
> significantly reduced as there would be no need to submit fraudulent
> requests.
> Do you mean that if it were permissible to walk away with someone
> else's belongings, then theft would no longer occur? Your statement is
> true without making any sense at all.
> > I'm sure an org willing to submit a fraudulent request would tell you
> that they do have a need but they may not happen to meet the
> current arbitrary (and they are arbitrary) policy.
> I disagree completely. ARIN's role is to satisfy needs-based requests.
> Exercising judgement of whether a need is realistic is doing their job.
> The only thing arbitrary here is your desire for there to be no rules at
> all. Deeply amusing, but not helpful for realistic policy.
> --
> Jo Rhett
> +1 (415) 999-1798
> Skype: jorhett
> Net Consonance : net philanthropy to improve open source and
> internet projects.
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