[arin-ppml] Internet Fairness

Fri Dec 19 21:02:08 EST 2014

A capitalistic model does not work for a finite resource like IP addresses. All that would happen is that a large company could just buy up all of the space, and then set its own price for everyone else. How's that for "fairness" ?? I don't see how you can argue for treating smaller orgs more fairly by proposing to allow large companies to set whatever ridiculous price they want.

I still don't get the needs argument at all. If an org can't show that it needs the addresses, then why do they need the addresses?

I agree that in the past it was difficult for small non-multihomed orgs to get space. But now that the minimum is a /24, it is so ridiculously easy.

-Randy

----- On Dec 19, 2014, at 6:59 PM, Steven Ryerse SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com wrote:

> I'm not being ignorant I am trying to get to bottom of the discussion.  I wish
> ARINs resources were issued by ARIN in a capitalistic manner.  Then as long as
> an Org is willing to pay the going rate resources could be acquired guaranteed
> as long as there are sellers.  There is no needs testing in that model just
> supply and demand and the ability to pay.  How do we change to the Capitalistic
> model from what we got now?
> 
> Steven L Ryerse
> President
> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
> 770.656.1460 - Cell
> 770.399.9099 - Office
> 770.392-0076 - Fax
> 
> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>                     Conquering Complex Networks℠
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf
> Of Ted Mittelstaedt
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 11:23 AM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Internet Fairness
> 
> First point here Steven is you have completely ignored and failed to respond to
> my first comment regarding why ARIN is the way it is - because it exists in a
> capitalistic society - because you have no answer for that.
> 
> I do not really believe for a second that you really want an honest debate on
> this issue.  What you are doing is sitting back and cherry picking weak
> arguments to respond to, and ignoring strong ones.  So I am not going to waste
> much more time with you on this.
> 
> But I will say that your comment:
> 
> " If .com domain names were nearing runout, would that really make it OK to
> start denying small Orgs .com domain name requests?"
> 
> is one of the most ignorant I've seen on this list in quite a while.
> 
> The DNS system exists to make IP addresses that are hard to remember, replaced
> by domain names that are easy to remember.  The average English speaking adult
> knows about 50,000 English words.  There's over 100 million .com domain names
> registered at this point.  We have far and away exceeded the number of English
> .com one word domain names that an average person would know.
> 
> Therefore we have long ago "run out" of .com domain names.  Oh sure, you can
> still register new .com domain names that are nonsense like
> fdgcjghhgeafvrar.com or you can make up elaborate long sentences like
> thisismynewdomainanemisntitkewel.com and register those names, but neither of
> those meets the bar of being an easy to remember name.  They are, in fact,
> harder to remember than the IP addresses that they are supposed to make "easy
> to remember"
> 
> There
> 
> On 12/18/2014 9:15 AM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
>> Thanks for your comments!  Actually the total number of possible .com
>> permutations is limited too.  IPv4 addresses and .com domain names are both
>> just Internet resources that Internet users need to use the Internet.
>> Obviously there are less IPv4 addresses than .com combinations, but IPv4 is
>> still the only way to access most of the Internet.  While ARIN has resources to
>> allocate - I'm absolutely fine limiting the size of an allocation to match the
>> size of an Org and their network, but I'm not fine with denying an Org any
>> resources.
>>
>> Also IPv4 cannot somehow be saved by conservation.  Regardless of any policy,
>> ARIN will run out of IPv4 probably within the next year.  If .com domain names
>> were nearing runout, would that really make it OK to start denying small Orgs
>> .com domain name requests?
>>
>> Steven Ryerse
>> President
>> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
>> 770.656.1460 - Cell
>> 770.399.9099- Office
>>
>> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>>                       Conquering Complex Networks℠
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf
>> Of Andrew Sullivan
>> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:59 AM
>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Internet Fairness
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 04:35:41PM +0000, Steven Ryerse wrote:
>>>
>>> If it is not OK to deny the Minimum domain (available) name to an Org, then it
>>> isn’t OK to deny an Org the Minimum  IP allocation.  They are both Internet
>>> resources.
>>>
>>
>> The analogy seems faulty to me.  The number space is finite (and in the case of
>> v4, not very large).  The name space in any given registry is admittedly not
>> infinite, since (1) it's limited to labels 63 octets long from the LDH
>> repertoire and (2) useful mnemonics are generally shorter than 63 octets and
>> usually a wordlike thing in some natural language.  There are, however, lots of
>> registries (more all the time!
>> Thanks, ICANN!); and last I checked neither info nor biz was anything close to
>> the size (or utility) of com, even though they've both been around since 2001
>> and have rather similar registration rules.  So, there is an argument in favour
>> of tight rules for allocation of v4 numbers that is not available in the name
>> case.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> A
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Sullivan
>> ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
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