[arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use

[Milton L Mueller]

Oops, seems I forgot to add the link
https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2014_1.html 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Milton L Mueller
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:28 PM
> To: 'Jo Rhett'; 'Steven Ryerse'
> Cc: 'arin-ppml at arin.net'
> Subject: RE: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
> 
> Jo and Steven:
> As the shepherd for 2014-1 I am having trouble understanding the
> relevance of arguments about needs assessment to the Out of Region
> Use proposal. That proposal does not change needs assessment
> policies.
> 
> Here is a link to the latest draft of 2014-1. Do you have any comments
> specifically about 2014-1?
> 
> --MM
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-
> bounces at arin.net]
> > On Behalf Of Jo Rhett
> > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM
> > To: Steven Ryerse
> > Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
> >
> > On Oct 27, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-
> > networks.com> wrote:
> > > If in the spirit of trying to prevent fraud non-fraudulent requests
> > > get
> > rejected, then Arin's mission stops being fulfilled.  I think it is
> > important to make sure the mission is respected first and stopping
> > fraud second or third or fifth or whatever.  We could stop all fraud
> > by stopping all allocations but of course that makes no sense.  I
> > would also point out that even when fraud happens Arin's Mission is
> still being fulfilled.
> >
> > I completely disagree. There are dozens if not hundreds of people
> with
> > non-fraudulent requests who get denied for insufficient justification.
> > That is ARIN doing their job successfully in my mind. If widespread
> > fraud occurs and ARIN does not take action, then I feel strongly that
> > ARIN would not be doing their job.
> >
> > > Of course maybe if the needs tests were loosened fraud would be
> > significantly reduced as there would be no need to submit fraudulent
> > requests.
> >
> > Do you mean that if it were permissible to walk away with someone
> > else's belongings, then theft would no longer occur? Your statement
> is
> > true without making any sense at all.
> >
> > > I'm sure an org willing to submit a fraudulent request would tell
> > > you
> > that they do have a need but they may not happen to meet the
> current
> > arbitrary (and they are arbitrary) policy.
> >
> > I disagree completely. ARIN's role is to satisfy needs-based requests.
> > Exercising judgement of whether a need is realistic is doing their job.
> >
> > The only thing arbitrary here is your desire for there to be no rules
> > at all. Deeply amusing, but not helpful for realistic policy.
> >
> > --
> > Jo Rhett
> > +1 (415) 999-1798
> > Skype: jorhett
> > Net Consonance : net philanthropy to improve open source and
> internet
> > projects.
> >
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