[arin-ppml] Update: 2014-1 Out of Region Use

Jay Martin jaymartin926 at gmail.com
Fri Apr 4 21:33:27 EDT 2014

this is a kind of another bureau policy to add to ARIN current bureau

like the IPv4 leasing ( even there is no policy defining on this lease
topic but it has been existing since the very beginning of internet born),
  the phenomena of  out-of-region use  is ubiquitous,   there has already
had many guys using its ARIN ips out of region.   there also has those
policy masters who says the Afrinic and Lacnic etc IPs can be used
everywhere in the world.

those policy masters clearly know the policy ( cited from NRO.ORG) below.
However, they can manipulate the sale of IPs in Afrinic and Lacnnic via a
disguised M/A purchase to avoid the restriction of no sale of addresses in
afrinic and Lacnnic.  After the "sale" of the ips,  those masters market
that those ips can be used everywhere in the wordd.


Does not allow sale of addresses, but recognises name changes and transfers
of tangible assets associated with addresses. Requires submission of legal
documents. Utilization is verified. May require new agreement.


Does not allow sale of addresses, but recognizes name changes and transfers
of tangible assets associated with addresses. Requires submission of legal
documents. Utilization is verified. May require new agreement. Once LACNIC
or any of its NIRs becomes unable, for the first time, to cover an IPv4
block allocation or assignment because of lack of resources, LIRs and/or
End Users within the LACNIC region will be allowed to transfer IPv4 blocks.

I would like to understand the reasons behind such a proposal.   it is just
another ways for some big firm to justify their "out-of-region'' and  this
proposal can also help those firm to avoid the 8.2,8.3/8.4 transfer to have
their IPs ( either old and new ) to be used in AP or other regions.   this
is quite similar to how the UN works before UN want to impose sanction on
some countries, UN need have a policy or reason to support such a
sanction.  and this proposal like the one "anti-flipping language" is try
to pave the way for such a kind of no restriction on "IPv4 transfer".

Let use A as one of the example,  suppose this proposal has been passed.
how will ARIN evaluate its request of A to decide how much percentage or
how large of a block can be used out of region? furthermore, considering A
has an APNIC account and have many IPv4,  how ARIN know its real
utilisation rate of A' other RIR account so as to approve A's  block size
which can be used out of region.

I have done some research and find that  Akamai has a total of 225,280 IPv4
in AP region.  If Akamai is the one who send request to ARIN for asking a
out-of-region use,  please tell me how will ARIN decide the utilisation
rate of that 225280 IPv4 in the other region?   previously Akamai had
receive a /12+/14 from ARIN, how many IPv4 from that /12+/14 can be used
out of region ?


On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oops, buffer overflow. Wrong thread. Simply, +1 for this thread.
> On Friday, April 4, 2014, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Same, +1.
>> Which isn't Section 11 a better place to address this?
>> Best,
>> -M<
>> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:55 PM, David Huberman <
>> David.Huberman at microsoft.com> wrote:
>> > Support in principle, strongly opposed as written.
>> >
>> > ARIN is a registry, not a regulator.  Networks with global reach should
>> not have regulatory rules placed on them by ARIN whose job is primarily to
>> record number assignments, not make rules which affect network topology.
>> Thus I support the idea that numbers should not be bound to arbitrary
>> political boundaries.
>> >
>> > I oppose this draft as written, however, because it adds hundreds of
>> words to NRPM where only a few are needed to address the stated goal.  The
>> problem statement indicates: " The next logical option is to discuss a
>> proposal that clearly permits out of region use without limits".  Well ok.
>>  If you wanted to do that explicitly in policy, how about:
>> >
>> >         Section 1.x -  ARIN-issued number resources may be used on
>> equipment located anywhere.
>> >
>> > All the rest of the text that I see in this draft come down to, "if you
>> have resources in other RIRs, we'll audit them to ensure you aren't double
>> dipping." Policy already allows that:
>> >
>> >         "ISPs must have efficiently utilized all previous allocations
>> and at least 80% of their most recent allocation
>> >          in order to receive additional space."
>> >
>> >         " In order to justify an additional assignment, end-users must
>> have efficiently utilized at least 80% of all
>> >         previous assignments, and must provide ARIN with utilization
>> details"
>> >
>> > We need to simplify NRPM and start peeling back a lot of this
>> over-regulatory policy.  To do so, let's write clearer and more concise
>> policy proposals, please.
>> >
>> > David R Huberman
>> > Microsoft Corporation
>> > Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS)
>> >
>> >
>> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]
>> On Behalf Of David Farmer
>> > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 10:23 AM
>> > To: ARIN PPML
>> > Subject: [arin-ppml] Update: 2014-1 Out of Region Use
>> >
>> > Based on the discussion at the PPC in Atlanta (link below), the
>> following changes are proposed.
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ppc_nanog60/webcast/2014-1.mov
>> >
>> > There is a summary of the changes and a red-lined version of the policy
>> text with new and deleted text highlighted following the complete Draft
>> Policy.
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > Draft Policy ARIN-2014-1
>> > Out of Region Use
>> >
>> > Date: 28 March 2014
>> >
>> > Problem statement:
>> >
>> > Current policy neither clearly forbids nor clearly permits out or
>> region use of ARIN registered resources. This has created confusion and
>> controversy within the ARIN community for some time. Earlier work on this
>> issue has explored several options to restrict or otherwise limit out of
>> region use. None of these options have gained consensus within the
>> community. The next logical option is to discuss a proposal that clearly
>> permits out of region use without limits, beyond those already existing in
>> policy.
>> >
>> > Permitting out of region use, however, poses issues that have to be
>> addressed by policy and adjustments to operational practice. Out of region
>> use needs a clear definition and any operational practices based on that
>> definition must not be unnecessarily burdensome. It is significantly more
>> difficult and costly for ARIN Staff to independently verify the
>> justification and utilization of resources that are reassigned or otherwise
>> used outside of the ARIN service region. There needs to be recognition of
>> this difference in policy and associated operational practices, especially
>> the cost differential when there is more than an incidental amount of out
>> of region use.
>> >
>> > Policy statement:
>> >
>> > Create new Section X;
>> >
>> > X. Out of Region Use
>> >
>> > ARIN registered resources may be used outside the ARIN service region
>> and such use is valid justification for new or additional resources.
>> Resources are considered to be used outside the region if the user or
>> customer service address or the technical infrastructure address, such as
>> the point of presence (POP), data center, or other similar location, are
>> outside the ARIN service region.
>> >
>> > There is a general presumption that requesting resources from ARIN for
>> use within another RIR's service region duplicates any resources held by
>> the organization with that other RIR.  Therefore, the organization should,
>> not hold any resources with the other RIR, or demonstrate that all such
>> resources held are utilized based on ARIN policy requirements, or provide
>> an operational justification clarifying how the resources from ARIN will
>> not duplicate any underutilize
> _______________________________________________
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140405/f5ea99f3/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the ARIN-PPML mailing list