[arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8 (Sandra Brown)

sandrabrown at ipv4marketgroup.com sandrabrown at ipv4marketgroup.com
Sun Apr 6 11:49:46 EDT 2014

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 19:41:04 -0700
From: Jay Martin <jaymartin926 at gmail.com>
To: David.Huberman at microsoft.com
Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <ARIN-PPML at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8
 <CALJtNObriexj+m0-V5kXwsPTG0u8q+tO2GU-S8v3zAcTb7=vMA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi David,


Why do you think remove needs test will be enhance a more accurate



Hi Jay:

Most instances where the whois is incorrect are cases of legacy IPv4
addresses.  Knowledgeable legacy IPv4 holders believe they have property
rights to their IPv4 addresses.

If they approach ARIN to bring the registry up to date, ARIN will
instruct them to sign an LRSA.  The LRSA contains text that explicitly
forces them to admit they have no property rights.

It they do not approach ARIN, and they keep their assumed property
rights, they hope in the future, for the benefit of being able to do
whatever they want with their IP's, 
such as transfer to any buyer in North America, Europe , or Asia without
ARIN permission.  It has never been proven in any court that ARIN
approval of a legacy transfer without an agreement
is necessary; however  for ~$400,000-500,000 it is hardly worthwhile for
a /16 owner to risk taking on ARIN in court to fight for its property

Perhaps at some point some party with more at stake, will force the
property right issue in court, and this is why there is low uptake on
signing LRSA's by legacy IP address holders.

It is possible that RIPE NCC will implement an inter-RIR policy, and
RIPE has no-needs justification.  What will ARIN do, if a legacy company
based in North America, with no ARIN
 agreement, transfers its IP's to a RIPE NCC member?  If RIPE registers
the IP's, will ARIN refuse to un-register the IPS, when the legacy
holder has no contract with them?  

Consider a similar situation where a company has legacy IP's in North
America and is an LIR in RIPE NCC and has no ARIN agreement.  What if it
wishes to transfer the IP's from its North 
American operations to its European operations?   It would ask the RIPE
NCC to register its IPs, and ARIN to unregister, and it has no agreement
with ARIN.  Would ARIN refuse?

This all comes back to the needs test and the LRSA.  If both were
removed, we would have a more accurate whois.

I believe it benefits whois accuracy and legacy IPv4 holders more than
it benefits anyone, including large companies.  My experience as an IPv4
broker, having completed
 more than 80 transactions globally,  is that large successful companies
have a lot of IP's and IPv6 that are registered with ARIN.   They want
to continue that 
relationship with ARIN and value that relationship more than removal of
needs justification.  I believe Mr. Huberman is speaking for the benefit
of the community at large 
based on his experience working at ARIN, and because he sees the bigger
picture of how inaccurate the registry is, and realizes these bigger
issues, and is merely pointing
 out that removal of needs justification will fix part of the problem.  
I have never met Mr. Huberman but I certainly agree with the views he
has presented here for the community's benefit,
and I think we should thank him for his guidance.

Sandra Brown speaking as 
President, IPv4 Market Group

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