[arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4 exhaustion

Bill Darte billdarte at gmail.com
Wed Nov 27 06:02:03 EST 2013


Jason,
I agree with you....that seems to be my biggest objection.
bd


On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com>wrote:

> I think the easy fix here is remove the requirement to already be using a
> /20, and instead have them provide strong justification about how the
> addresses will be used in the next 90 days for ISPs, in the next year for
> end sites, and in the next two years for transfers.
>
> I'm thinking something like immediate need, where they have some real data
> to show how the addresses will be used, but not necessarily in the next 30
> days.
>
> Possibly VC commitment to spend on purchasing 3,000 servers (each booking
> 1 IP) or 3,000 residential customer pre-orders, or 1,500 residential
> customer pre-orders, and a business plan to use revenue booked to deploy a
> second equally sized market in the time.
>
> Basically if you have the IP justification to get a /20 from your ISP,
> then submit that to ARIN and get a /21 slow start.  Use it and come back.
>
> ___Jason
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Randy Carpenter <rcarpen at network1.net>wrote:
>
>>
>> I have several single-homed clients who are in the position of having a
>> /23 or /22 from an upstream, and needing additional space. They are refused.
>>
>> They have a justified need, and are established networks, but ARIN policy
>> prevents them from getting their own space because they don't already have
>> a /20. At this point in the game the requirement of having space before you
>> can get space seems a little ridiculous, particularly at the current
>> minimums. If they were able to get their own space, they could hand back
>> most or all of the upstream space, thus providing a benefit to them as well.
>>
>> I am very in favor of moving the minimums to /22 for single-homed at
>> least. I would also be in favor of only requiring an upstream allocation of
>> a /24, so long as the ISP can show justified need for a full /22.
>>
>> For multi-homed, I would be fine with either /23 or /24.
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> -Randy
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > David,
>> >
>> > There are going to be lots of reasons why an ISP can't provide space to
>> a
>> > downstream post run out, even when on paper they have space.
>> >
>> > 1) Space dedicated to another region
>> > 2) Cost Prohibitive for downstream due to cost recovery.
>> > 3) Forward looking project that fits within the 24 month window.
>> >
>> > I can see the conversation now.
>> >
>> > Downstream: I need a /24 of IP space
>> > Upstream: NO
>> > Downstream: Ok, I'm telling on you.
>> > Upstream: We didn't sign the contract, find someone else to provide
>> service.
>> >
>> > In a primary market there are going to be "others". In a secondary
>> market you
>> > will be out of luck.
>> >
>> > We can't wrap this policy in a complicated beat stick. If a company has
>> a
>> > need for an initial allocation
>> > They are going to have to go to the transfer market. We should be able
>> to
>> > give them the initial allocation without adding complexity.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
>> > Behalf Of David Farmer
>> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 2:26 PM
>> > To: Brandon Ross; Jo Rhett
>> > Cc: ARIN-PPML List
>> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4
>> exhaustion
>> >
>> > On 11/22/13, 08:50 , Brandon Ross wrote:
>> > > On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Jo Rhett wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I'd like to see some actual documented issues with this. Almost
>> > >> everyone I know is sitting on large amounts of smaller blocks they
>> > >> can easily allocate to people. It's the larger (/21 or greater)
>> > >> blocks which are becoming scarce.
>> > >
>> > > What kind of documentation are you looking for?
>> >
>> > I would think an a copy of an email or a letter from the upstream which
>> > confirms the upstream can't/won't provide them address space, for some
>> > reason other than they don't think the customer justifies additional
>> address
>> > space.
>> >
>> > It is unfair for ARIN to withhold address space because the upstream has
>> > address space but won't provide it to the requester for what ever
>> reason.  I
>> > think it is reasonable to require some confirming documentation that the
>> > upstream is not providing address space.  You can't just "say" your ISP
>> is
>> > not providing it.
>> >
>> > However, if an ISP is saying you don't justify additional address
>> space, then
>> > you shouldn't qualify for address space from ARIN under an exception
>> like
>> > this.
>> >
>> > Also, ARIN should be able to refuse if they feel there is collusion
>> between
>> > an ISP and a requester.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> > --
>> > ================================================
>> > David Farmer               Email: farmer at umn.edu
>> > Office of Information Technology
>> > University of Minnesota
>> > 2218 University Ave SE     Phone: 1-612-626-0815
>> > Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029  Cell: 1-612-812-9952
>> > ================================================
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
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>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________________
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006
>
>
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