[arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4 exhaustion

joel jaeggli joelja at bogus.com
Sat Nov 23 23:37:38 EST 2013


On 11/22/13, 2:32 PM, CJ Aronson wrote:
> This is why RIPE and APNIC both have their last /8 policy.  Anyone can
> get a /22 once out of the last /8 (til there are no more).  Both are now
> signing up tons of new customers.   Both are generating a large amount
> of revenue.   The small guys can all get their /22.  Just sayin'

Revenue generation is wierdly, not goal of RIR operation.

> -----Cathy
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca
> <mailto:kevinb at thewire.ca>> wrote:
> 
>     David,
> 
>     There are going to be lots of reasons why an ISP can't provide space
>     to a downstream post run out, even when on paper they have space.
> 
>     1) Space dedicated to another region
>     2) Cost Prohibitive for downstream due to cost recovery.
>     3) Forward looking project that fits within the 24 month window.
> 
>     I can see the conversation now.
> 
>     Downstream: I need a /24 of IP space
>     Upstream: NO
>     Downstream: Ok, I'm telling on you.
>     Upstream: We didn't sign the contract, find someone else to provide
>     service.
> 
>     In a primary market there are going to be "others". In a secondary
>     market you will be out of luck.
> 
>     We can't wrap this policy in a complicated beat stick. If a company
>     has a need for an initial allocation
>     They are going to have to go to the transfer market. We should be
>     able to give them the initial allocation without adding complexity.
> 
>     Thanks,
> 
>     Kevin
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>
>     [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>     <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] On Behalf Of David Farmer
>     Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 2:26 PM
>     To: Brandon Ross; Jo Rhett
>     Cc: ARIN-PPML List
>     Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4
>     exhaustion
> 
>     On 11/22/13, 08:50 , Brandon Ross wrote:
>     > On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Jo Rhett wrote:
>     >
>     >> I'd like to see some actual documented issues with this. Almost
>     >> everyone I know is sitting on large amounts of smaller blocks they
>     >> can easily allocate to people. It's the larger (/21 or greater)
>     >> blocks which are becoming scarce.
>     >
>     > What kind of documentation are you looking for?
> 
>     I would think an a copy of an email or a letter from the upstream
>     which confirms the upstream can't/won't provide them address space,
>     for some reason other than they don't think the customer justifies
>     additional address space.
> 
>     It is unfair for ARIN to withhold address space because the upstream
>     has address space but won't provide it to the requester for what
>     ever reason.  I think it is reasonable to require some confirming
>     documentation that the upstream is not providing address space.  You
>     can't just "say" your ISP is not providing it.
> 
>     However, if an ISP is saying you don't justify additional address
>     space, then you shouldn't qualify for address space from ARIN under
>     an exception like this.
> 
>     Also, ARIN should be able to refuse if they feel there is collusion
>     between an ISP and a requester.
> 
>     Thanks.
>     --
>     ================================================
>     David Farmer               Email: farmer at umn.edu <mailto:farmer at umn.edu>
>     Office of Information Technology
>     University of Minnesota
>     2218 University Ave SE     Phone: 1-612-626-0815 <tel:1-612-626-0815>
>     Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029  Cell: 1-612-812-9952
>     <tel:1-612-812-9952> ================================================
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> 
> 
> 
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