[arin-ppml] fee structure

Steven Noble snoble at sonn.com
Sun Mar 31 00:13:34 EDT 2013

On Mar 30, 2013, at 8:18 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:

> On Mar 30, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>> [Milton L Mueller] So the end user membership fee is intended to be a payment of "earnest money" to prove that they are really interested?
> No, it is to provide equitable engagement for all those participating
> in the ARIN corporate governance matters.

$500 is way too high for me.. in fact paying just the $100 fee for my single ASN is high.  I spent many years with ARIN refusing to update my ASN due to a glitch in their system, but ARIN was happy to invoice me $100 for my single ASN.

>> Is the fear that without this speed bump end user members will become "rotten boroughs" whose votes are manipulated by others (who?).
> No, it is not a "speed bump" but simply a choice available to end-users;
> having an equal voice includes taking on some equal responsibility.

I have to pay an extra $500 a year to be able to vote?  How is that equal responsibility?  Sending ARIN more money does not make me more responsible, sending ARIN money makes me responsible.   Everyone who has a resource and pays for it should have a vote.

>> Is there a concern that some little organization with a /24 has the same voting power as an ISP with 2 /8s? Should voting power reflect "share" holding the way it does in stock ownership? Just some random thoughts...
> Random thoughts indeed; I almost didn't know if they even warranted
> reply, but have done so for clarity.
> The idea was to keep the end-user fees at low and simple as possible
> (for end-users that simply want maintenance of ARIN registry services.) 

When ARIN raised the fee from $30 to $100, it was not to keep the end user fee low.  The change only lowered the fee for people with more than 3 ASNs.  For those of us who have a single ASN, it raised the fee.  I paid the new fee and I was still refused service.  If I am not allowed maintenance of ARIN registry services than what am I paying for?  Now ARIN is going to charge $100 for each ASN, but what has changed on ARINs end that makes it so much more expensive to maintain the database?  Why did the fee not go back down to $30 per ASN?

> Membership provides an equal vote to every member, yet ISPs pay on 
> average $2500/year to ARIN.  Asking end-users to pay that same amount 
> in order to be a member with equal vote would likely be considered 
> unreasonable by many, but a contribution similar to the the _smallest_
> ISPs provides for comparable standing for all those who participate 
> with the same say in ARIN corporate governance matters.

I whole heartedly disagree.  You charge me a fee, yet I am not considered eligible to vote. 

Let's be clear here, the member/non member line you draw is arbitrary "The _smallest_ ISP" would be the one who pays the least.  I pay $100, so that makes me smaller than what you consider the  _smallest_ ISP.  I don't pay $0 so I do contribute, ARIN just doesn't give me a vote.

More information about the ARIN-PPML mailing list