[arin-ppml] A Redefinition ofIPv4NeedpostARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)

Jason Schiller jschiller at google.com
Thu Jun 20 11:14:33 EDT 2013


I know this thread is dead, but I just wanted to clarify something
that may be confusing for other following with no judgement.

What Mike Burns was talking about is two differ legal agreements:

1. Some times two organizations enter into an agreement that
results in IP addresses being transferred from one org to another.

This is supported in policy, currently requires needs based
justification, and the whois database records such a transfer.

2. Some times two organizations enter into an agreement that
results in and understanding that the current holder of the
address space will provide a Letter of  Authorization (LOA)
exclusive to them to aid in getting a route routed by their ISP.

This does not require any needs based justification (so long
as the current holder of the address space does not desire
additional addresses from ARIN, or ARIN does not find their
usage of [non-legacy] ARIN space to be out of complaisance.)

This does not cause an update to the whois database.

The whois database accurately reflects who is the holder of
the address space.

The whois database does not accurately reflect who is using the
address space.

This means the current user of the address space will have to
dependent on the current holder of the addresses to provide
support such as passing along email and phone calls wrt routing
issues.


__Jason


On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Mike Burns <mike at nationwideinc.com> wrote:

>   lol. An Amen and two shut-ups!
> OK, I’ll shut up.
>
>
>  *From:* Chris James <chris at datacate.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:19 PM
> *To:* Sweeting, John <john.sweeting at twcable.com>
> *Cc:* John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> ; Mike Burns <mike at nationwideinc.com>;
> arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition
> ofIPv4NeedpostARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)
>
>  Agreed.
>
> Chris James
> Datacate Inc.
> 2999 Gold Canal Dr.
> Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
> 916-526-0737 o.
> 916-668-5851 d.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Sweeting, John <
> john.sweeting at twcable.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> If possible could we move this to a private conversation? This has all
>> been aired on PPML several times before and at this point it serves no
>> purpose. If we could please get back on track and focus on a current draft
>> policy or proposal and state reasons for support or non support it would be
>> very much appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>  From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:12 PM
>> To: Mike Burns <mike at nationwideinc.com>
>> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>, Mike Burns <
>> mike at iptrading.com>
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition
>> ofIPv4NeedpostARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)
>>
>>   On Jun 19, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Mike Burns <mike at nationwideinc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>        You may say "legally purchasing" rights, but I truly don't know
>> what these parties think
>>    they purchased, since it can't be the ability to inject routes and
>> have them accepted
>>    (no one can provide that) nor the right to use the entry in the
>> registry, when the
>>    circumstances are contrary to policy.
>>
>>
>> I guess they figure they are buying what the Nortel bankruptcy judge
>> called the “exclusive right to use” the addresses.
>>
>>
>> Indeed, but those are rights which may be transferred in accordance with
>> policy.  In the case
>> of Nortel, this was accomplished by ARIN working with Microsoft and
>> confirming compliance
>> and then removing our objection, a point which Nortel's own filing makes
>> - "10. Second, the
>> revisions reflected in the Amended Sale Agreement and Revised Order were
>> the result of
>> negotiations between Microsoft, ARIN and NNI and, accordingly, ARIN’s
>> counsel has
>> informed NNI that it does not oppose entry of the Revised Order. " <NNI
>> Docket #5280>
>>
>> No problem buying the rights (that is, after all, what a transfer is) but
>> you also have to wait
>> for the approval before considering the deal "closed", just as in the
>> Nortel case.
>>
>>
>>   Consider if the buyer of the radio station could begin and continue
>> broadcasting without regard to regulatory approval?
>> Does that make a listener un-hear a broadcast? Or would the incentives
>> lead to lots of wildcat radio stations pending approval?
>>
>>
>> The safest move is to finalize the sale upon the approval; claiming that
>> it is complete prior
>> to that point is rather innovative (and might even be considered fraud if
>> done knowingly...)
>>
>> FYI,
>> /John
>>
>> John Curran
>> President and CEO
>> ARIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
_______________________________________________________
Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006
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