[arin-ppml] A Redefinition of IPv4 Need postARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)

Mike Burns mike at nationwideinc.com
Wed Jun 19 09:12:13 EDT 2013

Hi John,

Sometimes Buyers buy the listing in the ARIN database- that's a policy-based sale.
Sometimes they buy the ability to route and use the (legacy) addresses without changing that line in the Whois database.

The decision which to choose is often, but not always, based on the needs test.
For example, recently a buyer came to me looking for legacy space with the understanding that he could not justify under ARIN policies without substantial and expensive renumbering work on his part. He thought it wiser to consider simply buying the addresses "off the books" if it was less expensive and onerous than the renumbering. Now we can consider whether this is the kind of behavior the community wishes to allow or to incentivize or disincentivize, but we should not ignore the presence of these players and their affect on Whois integrity if we keep in place the same policy designed for free pool addresses where the profit motive could be ignored.

We seem to be trying to protect the Internet from the profit motives of "hoarders and speculators" while ignoring the effect of profit motives of other players here. If a buyer wants to get cash for addresses, and a seller wants to pay cash for addresses, guess what happens? 

But unless somebody like this volunteers evidence that they engaged in a non-policy transfer to a policy development board for an organization whose policies they don't recognize as binding them, well I guess it doesn't happen.

We are stewards of the registry first.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Curran 
  To: Mike Burns 
  Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net List 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition of IPv4 Need postARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)

  On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:16 PM, Mike Burns <mike at nationwideinc.com> wrote:

    You have agreed in the past that it is possible to advertise addresses for which the name in Whois does not match the name of the advertiser.

  The determination of appropriate verification of registration (for IP address 
  blocks to be announced in routing) is a decision made by service providers, 
  and varies widely.

    When you put the facts together- no legal obstacle to the transaction involving legacy space and no operational obstacle to the transactions- along with the pecuniary factors, you have a recipe for off-the books transactions which would be invisible to the ARIN community.

  The community has defined policies regarding transfers of address blocks, 
  and the registry is operated according to those policies.  

  The assertion "no legal obstacle to the transaction involving legacy space"
  depends on one's view of rights to IP address space.  If you consider an IP 
  address block to be the unique entry in the Internet number registry system,
  then there are likely some significant legal obstacles involved.  Buyers seeking
  to obtaining rights to something else via a purported transaction might want to 
  take care in obtaining a rather clear description of their purchase.


  John Curran
  President and CEO

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