[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles - revised

Steven Ryerse SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com
Mon Jul 15 12:02:28 EDT 2013

Note that I did say "right sized allocations" and have said multiple times that it is fine to match allocations with the size of the organization and/or the size of the organization's current network.  I also have stated that we need to be good technical stewards and I think most folks here agree with that.  I do not think a small organization like ours for example should ever get the technical equivalent of a /8 or even close to it.  I do strongly think that every organization should be able to get a right sized allocation if they are going to use it as that grows the Internet - which in case folks forget is ARIN's mission.  

Steven L Ryerse
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-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Wilder [mailto:Matthew.Wilder at telus.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 12:18 PM
To: Steven Ryerse; David Farmer
Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
Subject: RE: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles - revised

In that case, I would like to request a /8 of IPv6 space.  That seems right to me since conservation isn't a concern anymore.

To be clear, IP Address schemes can only be updated so far.  As far as I can tell IPv4 address schemes have never extended beyond the initial 32 bits they started off with, and IPv6 also will not change from a 128 bit address length.  Granted, CIDR was introduced to IPv4 to extend the timeline for exhaust of IPv4 address resources, but this is exceptional, and not the rule (certainly for the future).

And the cost you mention is not a negligible one.  Think of the amount of time and energy that has already gone into IPv6 only to approach 2% of global IP traffic on IPv6.  I believe it is in the community's best interest to conserve the word conservation in some form.  As David said, the conservation of IPv6 resources is going to be much different than conservation of IPv4 resources.

By the way, for those not following, there is a push from many member nations of the ITU and others in the international community to redistribute the governance of the internet in their interests.  Do not be surprised if the nations gain the ability to allocate IP Address resources to the entities within their borders.  In that world, IPv6 exhaust is only a short matter of time.  If we can at least embed the concept of conservation of IPv6 resources now in some way, the global community will thank us a generation or two from now.


On July 12, 2013 at 08:50 AM, "Steven Ryerse" <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:

> I disagree. Unlike say land which they aren't making more of, address schemes can alway be updated like IPv4 to IPv6. When IPv6 runs out we'll switch to IPv8 or whatever (albeit at a cost) or something better than IP.  Thus we don't need to conserve at all - we just need to do right sized allocations so we don't have to pay the additional cost to switch sooner than we have to.  Nothing like ipv4 or ipv6 or asn numbers need to somehow be conserved for a rainy day if there are folks that want to use them. 

> Bill is right that the word conserve needs to be removed. 

> Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 11, 2013, at 7:59 PM, "David Farmer" <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:

> > I really don't understand this debate on Conservation. :{
> > 
> > There are some that seem to be claim that conservation is irrelevant with IPv4 free pool run-out.
> > 
> > I say so what!  We still have IPv6 and ASNs to worry about, and while both resource pools are GARGANTUAN by comparison, they are not infinite.  Therefore some concept of conservation remains necessary, obviously not the same concept that we have had in IPv4 for the last 20 years or so.  But, completely eliminating conservation as a concept, principle, or goal, of how we manage Internet number resources, seems like the proverbial "throwing the baby out with the bath water."
> > 
> > Then others are not willing to concede that anything changes with IPv4 run-out.
> > 
> > I'll can say I really hope something changes, the focus on conservation that became necessary in the late '90s for IPv4, has nearly lead to the abandonment of other principles like the end-to-end model, open availability of resources (anyone building a network should be able to get unique addresses), etc...
> > 
> > So how do we move forward? I suggest;
> > 
> > 1. Can everyone concede that going forward, conservation is much less important, but that the need for some concept of conservation doesn't completely go away either.
> > 
> > 2. Lets focus the conversation on other issues for a while, let this cool down a little, then come back to it after we've cooled down and maybe have resolved some of the other issues.
> > 
> > 3. Are there other concepts, principles, or goals that were missing?  
> > I suggested earlier that there were additional principles we should 
> > be looking at.  An candidates has come up in the conversation today 
> > that I would like to propose;
> > 
> >   0.2 Fair Distribution
> > 
> >   The principle of Fair Distribution is the precept that the
> >   fundamental purpose of Internet number resources management is to
> >   distributed unique number resources in a fair and impartial manner
> >   to entities building and operating networks, for benefit of all
> >   Internet users equally, and thereby facilitating the growth and
> >   sustainability of the Internet.
> > 
> > I'd make this #2 behind Registration, and I'd suggest Conservation could follow and ties into this principle through the concepts of "fairness" and "sustainability"
> > 
> > Thanks
> > --
> > ================================================
> > David Farmer               Email: farmer at umn.edu
> > Office of Information Technology
> > University of Minnesota
> > 2218 University Ave SE     Phone: 1-612-626-0815
> > Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029  Cell: 1-612-812-9952 
> > ================================================
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