[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2013-3: Tiny IPv6 Allocations for ISPs

[joel jaeggli]

On 4/7/13 10:27 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> Number resource policy is not the reason mobile phone users are behind 
> CGN today.
>
> That's an excuse, not a legitimate reason.
>
  The fact that one can write a needs based request for the resources 
doesn't eliminate the fact that there aren't enough v4 IPs remaining to 
number them all in north america or anywhere else.

> Until fairly recently, there were actually several mobile phone 
> operators that did not place their subscribers behind CGN.
>
> Owen
>
> On Apr 7, 2013, at 19:34 , cb.list6 <cb.list6 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:cb.list6 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 7, 2013 7:19 PM, "Paul Vixie" <paul at redbarn.org 
>> <mailto:paul at redbarn.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > cb.list6 wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Apr 7, 2013 12:49 PM, "Paul Vixie" <paul at redbarn.org 
>> <mailto:paul at redbarn.org>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > i know that it's a popular viewpoint -- many folks feel that the 
>> time for needs based allocation is over and that the invisible hand 
>> of the market is now capable of optimizing the holding of address 
>> space and the aggregation level of that space into routing table entries.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Popular viewpoint go far in a bottom up process such as arin. In 
>> fact, the whole thing is a popularity contest.
>> >
>> >
>> > i said it was popular, not that it could win a popularity contest.
>> >
>> >
>> >> > so i thought i'd chime in: i consider that case to be extremely 
>> unmade as yet. even though i am in most other ways a free-marketeer. 
>> as stewards of a public resource ARIN has always been guided by RFC 
>> 2050 which requires recipients of these public resources to justify 
>> their need, no matter whether these resources are coming from a 
>> central pool or a private transfer.
>> >> >
>> >> > paul
>> >>
>> >> Does that mean you require an update to rfc 2050 to move ?
>> >
>> >
>> > not at all. i think RFC 2050 was and remains correct in this 
>> regard. i'll "move" when and if my mind changes on the matter.
>> >
>> >> I noticed this http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-housley-rfc2050bis-01
>> >>
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> Should 2050bis ask rir not do this fair  policy? From what I read 
>> in 2050bis is that is says the rir can make their own policy and 2050 
>> is dead.
>> >>
>> >> Do you read it differently?
>> >
>> >
>> > i read it to accurately explain that not every RIR still follows 
>> the needs based justification described in RFC 2050. it's a 
>> description of the current RIR system. 2050bis does not "ask" RIRs to 
>> do anything, it's a description of what they actually do.
>> >
>> >
>> >> As it stands, speaking from experience, the justification story in 
>> v4 and v6 drives design choices. That is an unfortunate fact and 
>> negatively impacts system design.
>> >
>> >
>> > i'm intrigued by this statement. i hope you are willing to share 
>> some of your experiences as to how needs based justification has 
>> negatively driven some design choices.
>> >
>> > paul
>>
>> I just wrote a page of explanation and deleted it.
>>
>> If I have to explain it, you would not understand. And you do not 
>> understand today's data networks at all. I feel bad and outrageous 
>> saying that. But, given hundreds of millions of mobile phone users 
>> behind cgn today, perhaps your question is outrageous
>>
>> Note that att and vz have both rolled cgn to their dsl subs.
>>
>> Yet arin is not exhausted.
>>
>> Interesting?
>>
>> CB.
>>
>>
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>
>
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