[arin-ppml] Regarding unauthorized changes (Re: Policy question)

John Curran jcurran at arin.net
Thu Sep 20 17:53:20 EDT 2012

Jeffrey -

   I think it is indeed useful for the question to be be answered (as you did), but
   your assertion that ARIN "could have easily fixed" the situation was incorrect
   as far as we can determine and highly misleading.  I have twice now reviewed
   the changes to the records, and the changes were all made by authorized
   contacts for the resources and the registry was updated correctly.  Note also
   this matter has not involved a question of judgement by ARIN, but simply that
   an ARIN Online account for the party holding the resources made the change
   in every case and the resources remain assigned to the party originally issued.
   To the extent that you believe that it should be otherwise due to legal documents
   which are contested between you and the current resource holder, I do strongly
   encourage you to seek appropriate adjudication of the matter.  ARIN will very
   promptly update records based the results, but clearly cannot do so beforehand
   for the very reasons that George Herbert outlines below.

Thank you,

John Curran
President and CEO

On Sep 20, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Jeffrey Lyon <jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net<mailto:jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net>> wrote:

I was merely answering the OPs question. Naturally, ARIN management became defensive with the dirty laundry partially aired

Thanks, Jeff

On Sep 20, 2012 4:34 PM, "George Herbert" <george.herbert at gmail.com<mailto:george.herbert at gmail.com>> wrote:
Jeffrey -

With all due respect; 3 issues.

1, This is not appropriate on-list.

2, Presumably, ARIN received evidence that the change was proper prior
to making it.  That evidence could have been wrong, forged,
fraudulent.  But a random person on the net asserting that a change is
wrong, forged, or fraudulent does not mean that it is wrong, forged,
or fraudulent.  If the process is that anyone can make an assertion
like that and the net is suspended, the possible damage is immense -
anyone could procedurally disrupt huge parts of the net by making
false claims of improper transfers.

You are not personally "random person on the net" and I assume you
haven't changed from an honorable networking professional to a malign
saboteur overnight, so I would guess you've got a good case here.  But
you're putting ARIN in the job of being a private detective and
judicial authority.  That's wrong.  They're a resources management
cooperative.  Them insisting that you convince a judge (who deals, by
profession, in wrongs, forgeries, and fraud) that something was wrong
with the other guy and it should be yours, is proper.

3, You said (I think) that you acquired these from a bankruptcy.  One
of the expected costs of acquiring assets that way is that sometimes
there are legal challenges.  If you aren't willing to deal with the
occasional legal challenge you should not procure assets that way.  If
your expectations were that that never happens, you were wrong in
those assumptions to start with, and need to reconsider your business

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