[arin-ppml] quantitative study of IPv4 address market
John Springer
springer at inlandnet.com
Thu Sep 6 18:16:42 EDT 2012
Hi Steven
On Thu, 6 Sep 2012, Steven Ryerse wrote:
>
> Until then IPv4 addresses should be allocated and not withheld by ARIN.
They are being allocated. To take Lord Beaverbrook out of context, "now we
are trying to determine the degree". Support may be growing for increasing
the degree. I feel that adjusting the degree will be more acceptable to
the community than removing the needs basis. _AND_ as near as I can tell
there is a process here that is _going_ to be followed.
> Your economic history lesson is interesting but not relevant when the
> mission of ARIN is to facilitate the advancement of the Internet and not
> to somehow slow its growth down by creating policies that do slow it
> down in favor of somehow saving IPv4. I know some folks in this
> community will get tired of me reiterating this over and over but I plan
> on doing so until some reason prevails.
You are clearly welcome to reassert your opinion, at will. But consider
this: to eliminate the needs basis, enough persuasion needs to be applied
in support of a policy proposal to that effect, to convince the community
to agree to it. A lot of persuasion is going to be required in addition to
some facts. Professor Mueller, et al, supplied some data that seem to
provide an indication that the needs horizon may be extended to good
effect. He and others make a number of other assertions for which I find
less support in the data.
John Springer
> Steven L Ryerse
> President
> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338
> 770.656.1460 - Cell
> 770.399.9099 - Office
> 770.392-0076 - Fax
>
> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
> Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 2:22 PM
> To: Steven Ryerse
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] quantitative study of IPv4 address market
>
> Yes, but in this case, it's equivalent to not only failing to pay $1 now to avoid paying $1,000 later, but also allowing the problem you could easily have addressed for $1 to grow to the point where it will also cost all of your neighbors $1,000 each as well.
>
> It's literally the network equivalent of deciding not to address a backed-up septic tank, but you keep right on adding to said septic tank until it floods your neighborhood in a layer of... well, septic tank contents.
>
> It's a whole lot cheaper to clean out a septic tank early than it is to repair the aftermath of a septic flood.
>
> In the septic flood case, we actually have laws that provide liability and penalties for people that fail to clean out their septic system in time. In the IPv6 migration, we have people arguing that ARIN shouldn't even be characterizing those failing to clean their septic systems as a problem.
>
> Owen
>
> On Sep 6, 2012, at 09:08 , Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
>
>> I think it is just delaying paying the cost to do and everyone delays paying costs when they can. Human nature.
>>
>> Steven L Ryerse
>> President
>> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338
>> 770.656.1460 - Cell
>> 770.399.9099 - Office
>> 770.392-0076 - Fax
>>
>> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>> Conquering Complex Networks℠
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 12:41 AM
>> To: Steven Ryerse
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] quantitative study of IPv4 address market
>>
>> As I said previously... Failing to deploy IPv6 _IS_ doing something technical that does hurt this community. Failing to get that failing to deploy IPv6 _IS_ doing something technical that does hurt this community leads to failing to deploy IPv6 and thus doing something technical that does hurt this community. Q.E.D.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 21:32 , Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With all due respect, how they decide to run their organizations is not any of his or our business. I believe that is the definition of liberty and freedom. As long as they don't do anything technical to hurt this community then it is none of his or this communities concern. This community should only concern itself with ARINs mission and not side issues.
>>>
>>> Steven Ryerse
>>> President
>>> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338
>>> 770.656.1460 - Cell
>>> 770.399.9099- Office
>>>
>>> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>>> Conquering Complex Networks℠
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:59 PM
>>> To: Steven Ryerse
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] quantitative study of IPv4 address market
>>>
>>> Paul's point was about the large number of well capitalized organizations he is observing that don't seem to get it.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 16:44 , Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree we do need to do IPv6.
>>>>
>>>> Steven L Ryerse
>>>> President
>>>> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338
>>>> 770.656.1460 - Cell
>>>> 770.399.9099 - Office
>>>> 770.392-0076 - Fax
>>>>
>>>> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>>>> Conquering Complex Networks℠
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:38 PM
>>>> To: Steven Ryerse
>>>> Cc: Paul Vixie; arin-ppml at arin.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] quantitative study of IPv4 address market
>>>>
>>>> Failing to deploy IPv6 will cause serious technical problems for everyone, so, seems to me Paul's comments in this regard are spot on.
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 15:14 , Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is it this community's charter to pass judgment on how any organization chooses to run their business - if they don't cause technical problems for the rest of this community? Seems to me Microsoft or whoever is "facilitating the advancement of the Internet", even if they choose to be greedy for their owners or shareholders in the process.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steven L Ryerse
>>>>> President
>>>>> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338
>>>>> 770.656.1460 - Cell
>>>>> 770.399.9099 - Office
>>>>> 770.392-0076 - Fax
>>>>>
>>>>> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>>>>> Conquering Complex Networks℠
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Paul Vixie [mailto:paul at redbarn.org]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 11:12 PM
>>>>> To: Jimmy Hess
>>>>> Cc: Steven Ryerse; Owen DeLong; arin-ppml at arin.net
>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] quantitative study of IPv4 address market
>>>>>
>>>>> to me the most significant fact in all of this is that well
>>>>> capitalized organizations do not act as if, in any way, there was
>>>>> an impending ipv4 exhaustion event, or even a shortage. they are by
>>>>> and large not treating
>>>>> ipv6 as though it was an imminent necessity. they know they can get ipv6 and run dual stack or translators for it at any time. their panic is limited to laying in a long term supply of ipv4 because they will need one or more half-decades to turn ship. they imagine, dimly if at all, that less well capitalized enterprises will move first their growth and then eventually their installed base to ipv6 but will not lose the ability to reach ipv4 -- ever. in this view, 2**32 addresses will go to the highest bidder, except for the dribs and drabs needed for "the 99%"
>>>>> to use various kinds of NAT or address translation.
>>>>>
>>>>> i am appalled. this is the same attitude that melts polar ice caps.
>>>>>
>>>>> paul
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PPML
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>>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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