[arin-ppml] IP Address Policy
dogwallah at gmail.com
Thu Aug 9 15:55:45 EDT 2012
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Steven Ryerse
<SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com>wrote:
> With all due respect bad policies need to be changed. Policy isn't policy
> as you say when it is bad policy. Consensus isn't good when it is wrong.
> ARIN does actually have an obligation to me and to you and to Microsoft
> and to every other member of the Internet community in North America.
> Their charter is to serve ALL of us and not just SOME of us. All of us
> should be on the same level playing field. The BGP policy is specifically
> designed to deny Internet resources based on the size of the requesting
This is your perception. It is designed to aid in the mission of
> This is absolutely wrong and it is bad policy!
> Arin's mission statement says: "Applying the principles of stewardship
This is the bit of the mission you seem to be missing. there is a reason
it is the first thing in the mission.
> , ARIN, a nonprofit corporation, allocates Internet Protocol resources;
> develops consensus-based policies; and facilitates the advancement of the
> Internet through information and educational outreach."
> This specifically says that one of ARIN's main missions is to Allocate
by applying the principles of stewardship, yes.
> It absolutely does not say that ARIN is supposed to find reasons and ways
> to deny resources.
nor does it. You just happened to have run afoul of current policy, which
you can try to change.
> It should be finding reasons and ways to approve allocation of resources
> to everyone who needs them. To do anything other than allocating resources
> to organizations who can demonstrate the need for those resources is the
> exact opposite of ARINs mission. Each policy should first have to pass the
> test of: Does this policy completely align with ARINs mission - and does it
> advance Internet usage? Any policies that fail this test need to be redone
> or be removed or not approved - regardless of how well written it might be.
I would be in favor of such a change to the PDP.
> I'm sorry that I appear to be ruffling the feathers of some members of the
> this community but I will keep on saying that in this forum over and over
> again until some reason prevails that this is wrong and it needs to be
> fixed. I am part of this community too.
You are welcome.
I doubt you will find a warm welcome if you keep insisting you are right
and the majority is wrong however.
Everybody wants a pony, few actually get one ;-)
> I would also categorically state that ruling by consensus can be dangerous
> and frequently does NOT result in good policies. If all of the polices
> that have been approved to date by consensus are so perfect then why do
> existing policies have to frequently be modified and fixed? I will give
> you a very graphic illustration of how consensus can be used for very bad
> policies. In the United States there used to be a very strong consensus in
> the southern states that black men and women should be enslaved. The vast
> majority of southerners had come to a strong consensus that the "policy" of
> slavery was good for the south and that the "policy" of slavery was good
> for the economy and that black men and women were only capable of being
> good slaves. This consensus was so strong that southerners were willing to
> die to keep the "policy" of slavery in place. There was a small minority
> in the south who stood up and said slavery was wrong. They were not part
> of the consensus and of course we all realize today that the "policy"
> created by the consensus of the majority that slavery was good was very
> WRONG - and this small minority was RIGHT. Consensuses have led to big
> trouble in Communist Russia and Nazi Germany and many other examples.
> Thank goodness we are not discussing issues of this magnitude in this
> community and of course I use these extreme examples to illustrate that
> governing solely by consensus is not always smart.
Most folk in the places you cite were disenfranchised. No one is
disenfranchised in making Internet resource administration/ditribution
policies. All are welcome, all have an equal voice in this meritocracy.
> The beauty and the power of this Internet Community forum is NOT consensus
We differ in this as well. I think the beauty of the system IS exactly is
ins Bottom-up, transparent, open and consensus based decsion making
> - but IS the ability of the Internet Community to have input into what
> ARIN does. That is very positive and the obvious reason why the mission
> statement seeks to give the Internet Community input to its actions. If
> the consensus of this community is contrary to ARINs mission then it should
> always be denied by ARINs board - every time. That is their fiduciary
> Many of the responses I have received so far want to debate a particular
> point of policy or a fine point of my augments but they don't really
> address my overlying point. While that kind of dialog is positive, it
> misses the overlying point I am trying to make that ALL policies need to be
> FULLY aligned with ARINs mission.
see the stewardship phrase.
> Until we come to agreement that ARIN needs to fully pursue its chartered
> mission to serve EVERONE who can demonstrate need - at a mission statement
> level, arguing the various points of a policy at a low level won't help
> solve the overlying problem. I am asking for the help of ARIN & this
> Community to correct the overlying problem first. I hope you will join me!
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, just saying!!
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
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