[arin-ppml] IP Address Policy

Thu Aug 9 10:30:33 EDT 2012

On Aug 8, 2012, at 20:13 , Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:

> I appreciate your input but I strongly disagree.  John said in one of his earlier emails that the reason we were denied is because of policy and that policy of course comes the this "community" and that sounds like a cabal to me.  Obviously it is target at organizations like us.  IP addresses are essentially not limited either since IPv6 is there to take the load once the IPv4 is exhausted.  IPv6 is going to happen pretty soon so there is no reason to stop assigning IPv4 until they are gone.  We've already got our IPv6 addresses.  It is pretty silly to tell me I can use whatever bits I want when you know we have to join in with everyone else.  Was that really a constructive comment.  There is no question that ARIN has a monopoly on the north American continent.  Where else can I go to an authorized registry for additional IP addresses for North America.  Obviously you know that too so another really constructive comment.  
> 

Steve,

The "community" consists of anyone who wishes to take an interest in setting addressing policy in the ARIN region, so, it is not a cabal and it is not targeted at organizations like you. It is people interested in the subject genuinely trying to balance a set of tradeoffs to the overall greatest benefit of the internet as a whole.

Multiple people have tried to help you, but you seem determined to have an adversarial relationship with the community.

Your idea that ARIN does not have to listen to the community is utterly and completely false. ARIN is obliged by it's articles of incorporation and its bylaws to listen to the community and for policies to be developed by the community. It is not a cabal because the community is open to anyone who wishes to participate. A cabal, by definition, must be exclusive. The ARIN community is not in any way exclusive, so it is not a cabal.

ARIN was established for the purpose of giving the community a voice in internet policy, so to ignore that voice and/or to override it in the administration of the community's resources would be to abandon that mission.

Bottom line, the internet works because of cooperation and approaching it from an adversarial perspective is rarely beneficial in obtaining the results on seeks.  The statement that you can use any bit pattern you want is not as silly as you think... It is a critical part of how this all works. ARIN doesn't have a monopoly on internet numbers. They have control of a database where they make registrations of unique sets of numbers. That database is used voluntarily by a set of cooperating entities (as are the other cooperating RIR databases) to guarantee uniqueness of numbers among those cooperating entities. If you don't like the RIR system, you are welcome to run your own routers using whatever numbering system and registry you wish. If you can convince enough other ISPs to go along with you, you can literally wrest control of the internet from the existing RIR system and there is no law that prevents it.

As I have said before, I am happy to help you draft a policy proposal through the policy process to get policy changed to meet your needs. I am happy to try and help you navigate the allocation process to get what you need under current policy, if possible (and I think it may well be possible).

Owen

> I put constructive comments out there and if you have constructive real comments then please share them and we can have a constructive dialog.  Otherwise you are not helping anyone.
> 
> Steven L Ryerse
> President
> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
> 770.656.1460 - Cell
> 770.399.9099 - Office
> 770.392-0076 - Fax
> 
> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>                     Conquering Complex Networks℠
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of David Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:34 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Policy
> 
> On 8/8/2012 9:05 PM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
>> John that sounds good in the theoretical world of this community but in the real world that I must live in, it is not reasonable for a monopoly to deny a resource request just because others in the community don’t want me to have the resources.  I again point out that you are a monopoly and your mission is to allocate resources and NOT to deny resources.  Because they are a monopoly, the phone company cannot deny me another phone line just because the folks who already have phones in my community don’t want me to have one or another one.
> 
> Phone lines are not a limited resource. Internet addresses are a limited resource, thus their management is distinctly different from an unlimited resource.
> 
> ARIN is not a monopoly. The internet community as a whole is necessarily a monopoly (of sorts) since there in only one global internet - "the Internet".
> 
> You are welcome to use whatever pattern of bits you like to address your devices. Noone has any interest in controlling or limiting the pattern of bits that you use.
> 
> However, if you want the rest of the internet community to treat the pattern of bits that you use to address your devices as meaningful - i.e. those who run internet connected networks will pass traffic for you, accept traffic from you, and/or send traffic to you - then that pattern of bits that you use to address your devices must be unique. The internet community has agreed (nem. con.) that IANA and the RIRs will control, register, and document allocations from the pool of unique patterns of bits to address your devices. The internet community has agreed that IANA and the RIRs will be governed by community developed policies. The policies that the ARIN RIR community have developed require needs justification for address allocations.
> 
> There is no cabal controlling address allocations. There is no group of people in the community that voted against or "don't want" you to have resources.
> 
>> 
>> I am not asking for a crazy amount of resources like a /16, my request is for a very small amount of resources (/22) and it is a reasonable request.  Your mission is to fulfill reasonable resource requests. Period.  I’ve read it 10 times today and every time I read it – it says you are to allocate resources not withhold them.
>> 
>> Steven L Ryerse
>> President
>> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
>> 770.656.1460 - Cell
>> 770.399.9099 - Office
>> 770.392-0076 - Fax
>> 
>> [Description: Description: Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>>        Conquering Complex Networks℠
>> 
>> From: John Curran [mailto:jcurran at arin.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 8:31 PM
>> To: Steven Ryerse
>> Cc: ARIN PPML (ppml at arin.net) (ppml at arin.net)
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Policy
>> 
>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 7:04 PM, Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com<mailto:SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> ... I am going thru proper ARIN channels to obtain needed resources and ARIN is refusing to allocate those resources to me.
>> 
>> Steve -
>> 
>> You have applied through proper channels but your request is not valid 
>> as it does not meet allocation policy criteria.  ARIN cannot allocate 
>> IPv4 resources to your organization as a result of that invalid request.
>> 
>> As others have noted, under the ISP multi-homed initial allocation 
>> policies (NRPM 4.2.2.2), there is a requirement to utilized the 
>> equivalent of a /23 (generally from your upstream ISP) before 
>> receiving for initial allocation from ARIN. This is not a policy 
>> requirement which is unique to your business but long-standing 
>> requirement in policy that all service providers have had to satisfy when making that transition.
>> Jimmy Hess did make an excellent point with regard to transfers - 
>> under the
>> 8.3 specified transfer policy, your full IP address needs for 24 
>> months can be considered in approving a transfer, and as such that may 
>> be more helpful with your present situation.  As ARIN is obligated to 
>> follow the existing policy as adopted, a transfer may be a more timely 
>> option that developing a policy change to these requirements for initial ISP allocations.
>> 
>> FYI,
>> /John
>> 
>> John Curran
>> President and CEO
>> ARIN
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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