[arin-ppml] An article of interest to the community....

Michael Wallace michael at birdhosting.com
Fri Sep 2 01:31:01 EDT 2011

I'm new over here.  Been reading for a couple of weeks.

The only issue I see with IP addresses is people not even making an attempt 
to use IPv6.  We have so many IP addresses in IPv6 that we should never run 
out.  The only major issue is ISP's are not really dealing with IPv6.  I 
tried to make a pretty big push to use IPv6 but failed doing so.  Only 
because I'm getting push back from my upstream providers (Ill leave them 
unnamed).  This poses a huge problem for all of us as we are mainly trying 
to stay afloat.  As we get more and more customers,  we need more and more 
IP's.  Well if we simply cannot move to IPv6 because upstream providers, 
and customers ISP's are not allowing IPv6.

Maybe what we all need to do as service providers is push upstream 
providers, and ISP's as a hole to start supporting IPv6.  

Once we get this, We will not have to worry about ethics of scanning IP 
allotment space to see if they are not/un utilized.  


Michael Wallace


From: "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com>

Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:21 PM

To: "Brett Frankenberger" <rbf+arin-ppml at panix.com>

Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] An article of interest to the community....

On Sep 1, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Brett Frankenberger wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 06:38:44PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote:

>> Mike,

>> 	What risk do you see in listing un/under-utilized resources that is

>> not present in merely holding those resources?


> Can't say for sure, but I'd guess it's comparable to the risk that

> exists in taking out a full page add in the local newspaper announcing

> "I will drive 80 in the 60 MPH speed zone at milepost X on highway Y at

> XX:XX on XX/XX/2001" that isn't present in driving 80 in a 60 but not

> advertising when and where you will be doing it.


Except that it would be more like doing that after the chief of police and

the commandant of the highway patrol had told you that making such

an announcement in and of itself would not cause them to pursue you.

> If your resources are underutilized, ARIN *could* do a section 12 audit

> and initiate reclamation.  If you don't tell anyone that you are

> underutilized, ARIN won't know, so they only way you'd get hit with an

> audit is if you got really unlucky.  If you tell the world (by putting

> them up for auction), the risks get higher, because ARIN knows (or at

> least has a strong indication) that you are underutilized.


In spite of John's claims to the contrary, I actually believe that ARIN 

begin performing random reviews as time permits and should certainly

be looking for resources that appear to have a pattern of un/under-


> ARIN hasn't made a practice of doing that, and I agree with John's

> statement that they aren't likely to start doing that.  But if they

> don't know you are underutilized, your risk is lower than if they do

> know and you're relying on them to nevertheless refrain from an audit. 

> In my view, the risk is very low either way.  But it is lower if ARIN

> doesn't have the information, and some companies are going to play it

> safe.


John's statement wasn't that they aren't likely to start doing so. John's

statement was that he did not feel that they should start doing so.

John and I disagree in this area and I think at the end of the day

as scarcity becomes more of an issue, there will be more pressure

from the community to change John's position on this. John answers

to the board. The board answers to the members.




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