[arin-ppml] ARIN-2011-1: ARIN Inter-RIR Transfers - Last Call

John Curran jcurran at arin.net
Wed Oct 19 18:43:34 EDT 2011

On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:54 PM, William Herrin wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 5:28 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>> On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:17 PM, David Farmer wrote:
>>>> Besides, doesn't this language prevent inter-region address transfer
>>>> due to mergers or acquisitions? If I want to buy a web hosting shop
>>>> and move it off shore, why should I be denied?
>>> I don't remember inter-regional M&A coming up before, but from discussion with Staff last week it appears this has been some small demand for this for a while now.  However, its not clear to me that most of the community was think of this issue when we discussed inter-regional transfers.  That's not to say we shouldn't, but I'm just not sure we should try to do it all in one bite anyway.
>> International M&A transactions often don't appear to be interregional,
>> because the acquiring parties often have business units in our region
>> which actually end up being the acquiring business unit.  As long as
>> the infrastructure making use of the addresses is being acquired as
>> well, the processing of these requests is relatively routine (and is
>> generally between in-region businesses, even if one is held entirely
>> by an international firm.)
> Hi John,
> For the sake of the argument, let's put a web hosting company holding
> a /20 in El Paso. They're bought by a Mexican firm which puts the
> servers on trucks and moves the operation to Juarez.
> 2011-1 as previously written says: 8.2 bought the company. 8.2 bought
> the infrastructure. 2011-1 LACNIC has ARIN-compatible policies.
> Transfer to LACNIC. Done.
> 2011-1 as posted today says... not an 8.3 transfer. 8.2 says... in
> region transfers. RSA 8 says... hmm, you do not appear to have any
> ARIN-region infrastructure with which to maintain your justification
> for those addresses. RSA 14b says... we'll take take those address,
> thank you. Buh bye!
> Now, I'm sure this particular case happens at least several times a
> day, but seriously: separated from section 8.2 and 8.3, draft 2011-1
> was sufficiently comprehensive to handle it. Merged with section 8.3,
> it isn't.

Bill - 

  I don't know if we've ever seen your particular scenario or not.
  M&A transfers are handled under NRPM 8.2.  I do not believe that
  any version of 2011-1 specifically prevents inter-RIR M&A transfers 
  from occurring, and the present 2011-1 draft policy for specified 
  transfers clearly is distinct from NRPM 8.2 due to starting with 
  the line "In addition to transfers under section 8.2,..."

  You've indicated 8.2 says "in region transfers" transfers, and 
  yet that is not present in the policy text nor in the overarching 
  NRPM 8.1 section on Transfer Principles.  If a large ISP from 
  another region presented legal documentation that it has fully 
  acquired an in-ARIN-region ISP, we would update the registrations 
  accordingly, and I seen no version of 2011-1 which would alter 
  this situation (Note - one might have attempted to twist Draft 
  Policy 2011-13, which is now abandoned, into such a creative 
  interpretation but even that would be questionable given the 
  specific draft policy text that was being considered.)

  If you believe that inter-RIR M&A transfers should not be 
  allowed, I would suggest submitting specific policy language 
  for inclusion into NRPM section 8.2.


John Curran
President and CEO

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