[arin-ppml] Draft Proposal for Needs-Free IPv4 Transfers

Ted Mittelstaedt tedm at ipinc.net
Mon May 9 23:52:29 EDT 2011

On 5/9/2011 6:14 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote:
> On May 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>> In my opinion, the FACT that none of the Legacy holders, when they
>> needed additional resources, have attempted to just pull numbers
>> out of their ass, but instead have in fact gone to the RIR's for
>> more numbers, means that in effect the concept of "adverse
>> possession" has happened.
>> In short, the RIR's have exerted authority over the IP space, and
>> for the last decade none of the Legacy holders have disputed this,
>> and as a result, the Legacy holders have lost whatever rights that
>> they might have had to dispute RIR control of the ENTIRE IPv4&
>> IPv6 space.
> That isn't how it works.
> If I put a fence around a 10 acre corner of your 100-acre plot and
> you don't object to the fence, then after some years I can claim
> adverse possession over the 10 acres... not your entire 100-acre
> plot.

except this is a situation where in effect the 10 acre corner is the 
ONLY access to your 100 acre plot (it's the only section of your land
that is next to a road and the county won't issue you a permit for
a driveway for anywhere except within that 10 acres)

>> Thus I believe that even though the right of ARIN to pull IPv4
>> numbers from Legacy holders is not enumerated in the NRPM, that
>> under most legal systems they do have that right today, simply
>> because none of the Legacy holders have attempted to deny them that
>> over the last decade.
> None of the legacy holders have attempted to deny them the ability to
> assign from the unassigned space... but that's difference.
> And none of this matters if the address space *isn't* property.

which is why ARIN is so insistent that IP addresses aren't property.

I still feel much of this is dependent on what transpired between the
Legacy holders during the formation of the RIR system.

When ARIN was formed ALL IP assignments in operation were legacy.
Yet during the entire time of the RIR's existence none of the Legacy
holders attempted to transfer IP addresses?  I find that very hard to
believe in the absence of some hidden agreement by the Legacy holders
to respect the authority of the RIR.

Even years ago, Legacy addresses were worth something.  If I could
have got our /19 transferred from a Legacy holder years ago, we would
not have paid fifteen thousand dollars (to date) in fees to ARIN.  We
would have paid nothing.


> Matthew Kaufman

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