[arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-146 Clarify Justified Need for Transfers

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Fri May 6 12:36:31 EDT 2011

>>> If ARIN declines to allow justification-less transfers, would be
>>> resource vendors will stay on the black market. I hear a lot of gouge
>>> in C-squad circles about how acquisitions are being conducted just to
>>> conduct illicit transfers of /17 - /20 allocations. The justifications
>>> that are being used to hold on to resources seem really loose. I made
>>> one fraud report last year and it was closed without action. I won't
>>> criticize ARIN for that action; I merely wish to point out that the
>>> black market and false resource justifications are alive and well.
>>> We can eliminate the IP black market by allowing justification-less transfers.
>> We could eliminate criminal murder by making murder legal, too.
>> I'm just not sure what the advantage is.
>> We could eliminate the crime of theft by simply making it legal
>> to steal. Again, I'm not seeing an advantage.
>> The argument that a black market can be eliminated by legitimizing
>> a market without rules  is just such a tautology.
>> Owen
> Owen,
> I'm talking about deregulating a civil process, not legalizing crimes.
We could eliminate divorce if we simply banned marriage?

We could eliminate product tort claims if we simply eliminated product
liability laws?

Does the difference between criminal and civil really matter in this

> HE also provides IPv6 services to basically everyone in the world who
> is currently using IPv6 in some capacity. As it stands, if you're
> using IPv6 you almost have to be peered to HE. This is a massive
> contrast to a company like Black Lotus that will be hard pressed to
> ever fully utilize a /32.
When HE started on the IPv6 road, we thought a /32 was more than
we could ever conceivably use, too. We had no expectation that IPv6
would lead us to where we are now. We're glad it has, but, that
wasn't what we initially expected.

That was my point. Until you get more fully deployed, you really
don't know what your IPv6 world will look like.

> On the carrier front, our current carriers are working out but none
> have substantial experience in IPv6. Your employer is probably the
> only company in the world that has really mastered IPv6 carrier sales.

You are welcome to buy from us. ;-)

There are a couple of others, but, I'm not here to promote HE, let alone
our competition.

> Even the major carriers we deal with now are having small issues here
> and there, simply due to inexperience. That aside, we don't have a lot
> of options. How many carriers do you know of that will sell 10G's with
> unmetered ingress (for sinking DDoS) at a very low rate. From my
> research, I can count them on one hand.

That's probably true... I can think of one I know for sure that can do that
for you on IPv6 and one I think is likely. If you look at where AS1734
is homed, you'll probably be able to identify both.


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