[arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-146 Clarify Justified Need for Transfers

Larry Ash lar at mwtcorp.net
Thu May 5 16:55:09 EDT 2011

On Thu, 5 May 2011 14:12:14 -0400
  "Sweeting, John" <john.sweeting at twcable.com> wrote:
> A large percentage of the price of a gallon of gas is attributable to 
>Speculators, companies that never even take ownership of the oil, they just 
>buy it and sell before it is even shipped.
> +++
> On 5/5/11 1:24 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>> Based on the fact that you call it "petrol," i'll assume you're not in
>> the United States. My trips to the gas station take about < 5 minutes.
>> I would call that a testament to the free market.
> As near as I can tell based on significant travel, gasoline or petrol
> prices are quite artificially low in the united States compared to the
> rest of the world. I don't actually know why that is, but, I would say
> that the energy companies in the US are some of the best examples
> of free market dysfunction that are available.

Actually there is nothing to be learned about free markets in the oil 
as it stands today. It is heavily regulated and manipulated by many of the
governments of the world (and others). The oil markets have been raided by
speculators at times but their effect is very difficult to determine.
Most (but not all) oil speculators end up broke. Fuel prices are a political
consideration in almost every country in the world. If ip was oil there
would still be a /2 left and we would have this argument in a different
context. (There is a LOT more oil than you might think.)

> My trips to the gas station take between 5 and 45 minutes, depending
> on the length of the line. The price of gasoline fluctuates randomly
> and is obviously  detached from the realities of the costs of the raw
> materials. The price only drops significantly after it has risen so much
> so rapidly that there is public outcry and congress starts to seriously
> consider additional regulation of the industry. Then it drops just enough
> to silence the cries for regulation.
>> But in all fairness, all governments have their hands in the cookie
>> jar. Your government more so from what I can tell.
> There are a number of possible explanations outside of the government's
> hand in the cookie jar for the disparity in experiences at the gas pump.
> Owen

The real problem here is that some people don't like the policies that 
control IPv4
number assignments/transfers. They were derived by community consensus and 
the alternative
registry is just a way to get around that. Sorry but that shouldn't happen. 
Even if
competing registries were allowed they should be bound by regional policies.

Personally I can't say I like all of the policies either but that is how 
consensus works.

In it's simplest form a registry is a "spreadsheet" of assigned and 
unassigned numbers
and who has them. We long ago added a method for the community to "look-up" 
that information
and added contact information for ease of administration and as part of the 
"deal" we
all have. "I'll let your traffic on my network if you'll let mine on yours" 
Obviously things
are a bit more complex now but the idea is the same.

A bunch of competing spreadsheets is chaos not a free market (IMHO).

The hue and cry that arose from the recent IPv4 transfer shows that 
community consensus has
not been reached for transfers.

Do we really want a free market for IPv4 transfers?
If so we need to look carefully at:
a)Single aggregate requirement (if it exists)
b)What level of need is necessary when IPv4 addresses have a real cost.
c)Exactly what happens if a transfer fails.
It seems to me that this is where we need to concentrate and let the 
"competitive spreadsheets" go.

As for Prop-146 and Prop-147  +1

Larry Ash
Network Administrator
Mountain West Telephone
123 W 1st St.
Casper, WY 82601
Office 307 233-8387

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