[arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.

Thu May 5 14:51:30 EDT 2011

Hi Ted,

Okay, I understand what you mean, and where the line should be drawn in 
terms of solicitation for participation.
I shouldn't go out and make mass mailings or robotic postings or go to 
specific forums and try to stir up the population to jump on and vote for my 
proposal.
But if I had a blog or something, I could write about the issue and ask the 
readers to participate in the list generally, but not just to jump on one 
proposal that might suit them ideologically or emotionally.

I would say that is pretty close to my own opinion.

Regards,

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at ipinc.net>
To: "Mike Burns" <mike at nationwideinc.com>
Cc: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.

> On 5/5/2011 11:30 AM, Mike Burns wrote:
>> Hi Ted,
>>
>> Thanks for the input.
>> I understand what you are saying about the dangers of the unwashed.
>> What about a blog?
>> Do you think it would be okay to advocate a position in blog and solicit
>> participation on the list?
>>
>
> It's always OK to solicit participation in the list.  But the key word
> here is "participation"
>
> Writing an article to tell people to subscribe just over some point issue 
> and flood the mailing list isn't participation.  If they are going
> to participate, then they better be here for the long run.  There's a
> lot of other stuff that we deal with.
>
> Ted
>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at ipinc.net>
>> To: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
>>
>>
>>> On 5/5/2011 11:02 AM, Mike Burns wrote:
>>>> It seems to me that the decision about needs analysis for transfers may
>>>> have some large non-technical components, like one's view of the role 
>>>> of
>>>> markets in allocating scarce resources.
>>>> Yes, there are issues of deaggregation, which are too technical for the
>>>> layman.
>>>> Yes, there is a danger of overburdening the policy development system,
>>>> not something anyone would want.
>>>> But do we want a technical elite making decisions that are not really
>>>> technical, like the value of unrestricted versus restricted markets?
>>>
>>> No, we do not.
>>>
>>>> Are we inside an ivory tower?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, but there is a proper way to bring the general public into the
>>> decision making in a large volume.
>>>
>>> There isn't (in my opinion) a problem with posting in a rag like
>>> the Libertarian Times or some such, that a mailing list like ppml
>>> EXISTS. The very few members of the general public who waste their
>>> time with that stuff and who are at all competent and really care
>>> about the issue will investigate, make themselves fully aware of
>>> all of the arguments on all sides of the issue, as well as look
>>> up the rules for the ppml list (which I will remind everyone,
>>> ARIN owns and makes the rules on) then join and contribute in
>>> a positive way.
>>>
>>> But the majority of the members of the general public who waste
>>> their time with that stuff and who are NOT competent will find the
>>> bar of actually having to look up the instructions for posting
>>> and rules for joining too difficult to master, and will stay away.
>>>
>>> Unless, that is, the poster of the article in the Libertarian Times
>>> gives an explicit step-by-step set of instructions for how to
>>> go about subscribing, that a blind monkey could follow.
>>>
>>> If you really and truly want to bring people into the decision
>>> making process who are too ignorant to google up "ppml mailing list"
>>> then the proper way is via publishing a survey in the ragazine.
>>>
>>> The author of the article in the Libertarian Times can create a
>>> dumbed-down survey on someplace like survey.com or whatever, that
>>> the ignoramuses can comprehend.
>>>
>>> Then we can get the feedback from the unwashed masses without
>>> being drowned in an onslaught of 5000 fools wanting to know what
>>> an IP address is and why we can't make more of them.
>>>
>>> But, to save you the time I can predict what the general public
>>> will say in advance - boiled down:
>>>
>>> "I want what I have to stay the same and I don't give a damn
>>> if it staying the same prevents 3/4 of the people in the world
>>> who aren't on the Internet now, from ever getting on it. I
>>> got mine, Jack, and screw the rest of them."
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farmer" <farmer at umn.edu>
>>>> To: "Martin Hannigan" <hannigan at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: "Mike Burns" <mike at nationwideinc.com>; <arin-ppml at arin.net>; "David
>>>> Farmer" <farmer at umn.edu>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Serious question for the list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/5/11 12:25 CDT, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, David Farmer<farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/5/11 11:49 CDT, Mike Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I have had an idea.
>>>>>>>> Since it has been determined that everybody in the ARIN community
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> an email address may participate in policy development, how does 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> list feel about soliciting the input from a broader group of
>>>>>>>> participants?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While not an absolute requirement, I believe there is an
>>>>>>> understanding that
>>>>>>> some minimal level of technical expertise and interest in the
>>>>>>> details of
>>>>>>> the subject matter are necessary in order to provide useful or
>>>>>>> meaningful
>>>>>>> contribution to the process.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So we would exclude members of the general public (users) then?
>>>>>
>>>>> Where did I say exclude? "not an absolute requirement", an "interest
>>>>> in the details" are needed for a "meaningful contribution". None of
>>>>> that means exclude in my book, it simply means that participation
>>>>> takes effort and if you want people to take you seriously you need to
>>>>> make a effort. That is true in many parts of civil society.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ===============================================
>>>>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
>>>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>>>>> Office of Information Technology
>>>>> University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
>>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
>>>>> ===============================================
>>>>
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>>
> 