[arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-127: Shared Transition Space for IPv4 Address Extension

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Sun Jan 23 17:10:18 EST 2011

On Jan 23, 2011, at 1:10 PM, Mark Smith wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 12:01:39 -0600
> "Frank Bulk" <frnkblk at iname.com> wrote:
>> So that operators in ARIN's region have a reasonable path to NAT444.  No one
>> likes NAT444 and we acknowledge that this designated space could be used for
>> purposes other than what the reasons that led to this policy proposal, even
>> if the policy proposal specified otherwise.  But as Owen said, the operator
>> would be shooting themselves in the foot.  By the time they use this space
>> for *something else* and then wanted to do NAT444, they would not be able to
>> justify a request for IPv4 space for NAT444.  
> There's been plenty of foot shooting in the past with private and
> non-allocated address space. Why is this time going to be any
> different? Giving away more address space with RFC1918's properties
> will only provide a level of legitimacy to further foot shooting -

The question is who is doing the shooting and whose foot is being shot.

In this case, you've got a situation where the IETF and the end users
have managed to shoot the ability to deploy NAT444 in the foot.

If we set aside this /10, that restores the ability for the ISPs to deploy
NAT444 (bullet removal). Now, if an end-user proceeds to use this
space, then they have shot off their own foot and I doubt anyone will
have much sympathy for them. In other words, they can only harm
themselves, not their ISP, not the rest of the community, so, who cares?

> people will ignore what this space is specifically for because by its
> nature it can't be policed - I'm guessing the Hamachi people
> will start using it straight away since they "lost" 5/8. If this /10
> never exists, then whenever people try to shoot themselves in the foot
> they'll unavoidably know they're about to do it. Of course you can't
> prevent stupidity, but you can make it more obvious that it is
> occurring.
This isn't about people who shot themselves in the foot. This is about
people who are loosing feet from shots fired by other people.


>> Frank
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
>> Behalf Of George Bonser
>> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:19 PM
>> To: Owen DeLong
>> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-127: Shared Transition Space for IPv4
>> Address Extension
>> <snip>
>> Why should the network come out of ARIN's hide?  If APNIC and
>> IETF won't support it, why should ARIN?
>> <snip>
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