[arin-ppml] Please try the strong arm tactics first - was Re: ARIN-prop-136 Services Opt-out Allowed for Unaffiliated Address Blocks

[Warren Johnson]

Comments below

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 3:57 PM
To: arin-ppml at arin.net
Subject: [arin-ppml] Please try the strong arm tactics first - was Re:
ARIN-prop-136 Services Opt-out Allowed for Unaffiliated Address Blocks

On 2/25/2011 1
> If we want to go the other path, and force all transfers to comply
> with ARIN policy, then we have a difficult legal position with regard
> to legacy holders.  If all legacy holders were under LRSA then we'd
> be fine.  Or if there was some unambiguous delegation of regulatory
> authority then we'd be fine.  But ARIN is just a 501(c)6 business
> league with a loosely-defined ICANN relationship.  I'm not sure that
> strong-arm tactics will work.

I would prefer that we try the strong arm tactics first.  If they don't
work then we can then entertain "another alternative"  But just lying 
down and giving up, without even trying, is utter B.S.

===============================
Strong arm won't work.  The Internet runs because everyone plays nicely with
each other.  As soon as you start strong arming, you're changing the entire
nature of the situation.  If it becomes a truly market-based economy, the
entire game changes.
===============================


There are thousands of legal, honest, orgs who are paying the yearly
transfer fees, signed the RSA, and did what was needed to meet the
requirements.  They deserve something better than an RIR that is
a limp, wimp, for their money.  The RIR may not win in the end but
I would gladly see most of my org's fee go to making the miscreant pay 
dearly in legal fees to get away with a fraudulent transfer.

================================
You and the community would quickly tire of spending millions a year on
legal fees. Trust me; that sh*t gets old fast.
================================


Ultimately there's more of us than of the miscreants.  We also have an 
almost inexhaustible supply of money in yearly fees to keep funding the 
fight from now until IPv4 becomes unused on the Internet.

================================
Inexhaustible huh?  Let us not forget that the annual dues actually go to
operating the organization.  It doesn't take long to burn through a lot of
legal fees.  I have seen simple shareholder buyout negotiations cost each
side $25k->$50k.  Now I want you to imagine that some organization with
millions at its disposal is fighting for its life.  Now multiply that by
fighting a dozen "miscreants".  I promise you, you don't have the stomach
for that fight.
================================


For an org to deliberately set out to fraudulently obtain legacy
resources and not follow the rules, is in my opinion, very stupid.

================================
Define stupid?  Because you never know what people will do if they're
desperate or greedy or both; especially if they have a large legal defense
fund.
================================

The only thing stupider would be for us as a community to seriously
entertain the idea that orgs that are intent on obtaining addresses
outside of the rules should be allowed to have any kind of alternative.
That is just going to encourage misbehavior and you might as well not
have an RIR system then, and let everyone pull any old IPv4 and IPv6
addresses out of their asses.

================================
Ipv4 depletion has the potential to reshape the entire Internet; and I don't
mean by changing to ipv6.  If IPv4 becomes valuable property and people
can't get what they want, they're going to do very naughty things.
Remember, the corporation exists to make money for its shareholders so all
they're going to do is consider the potential legal costs associated with
litigating the RIR if they're caught and factor that into the cost of what
they're doing.  I do not envy the registries.  They're in a very tough spot.
Somewhere is a compromise.  But first you have to open your eyes and see the
brick coming at you.
================================




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