[arin-ppml] New Entrants shut out? (Was: ARIN-2011-5: ... - Last Call
owen at delong.com
Sat Apr 30 09:23:44 EDT 2011
On Apr 30, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>> This is true, unless we embrace a free market.
>> How is a free market with needs-based justification any different from a free
>> market without it in this respect?
> Two concerns come to mind. It's 3AM here so i'm sure i'll think of more later:
> - Needs based justification requires a substantial amount of oversight
> on our part, it takes a lot of time (and therefore $) to keep track of
> justification and maintain it in a format that is acceptable to ARIN.
> Then when we submit a request it is scrutinized, which costs more T+$.
So, let me get this straight... You think we should abandon needs
basis not because there is a community benefit, but, because you
think it's too much trouble for you to comply. Sorry, I find that
argument far from compelling.
> - Right now my organization is holding 2 x /21. We waited over 4 years
> to submit our request for the second /21 in order to avoid the
> aforementioned, and in an attempt to take care of the resources we had
> been given. We finally caved in and took the second /21 just a few
> weeks shy of the IANA depletion and now recognize that future
> allocations are going to become near impossible to find. IPv6 adoption
> is underway, but unfortunately support and adoption is slow to catch
Good for you on your address conservation efforts. As to the IPv6
adoption rate, it is definitely accelerating sharply.
> This leaves us rationing space to customers in what amounts to a
> digital breadline, where customers have to beg for space and we have
> to debate with them about why they're now paying $10 per month, per IP
> (it's to discourage people from attempting to justify large
> assignments and to encourage larger customers to go direct to ARIN)
> where other companies who managed to "justify" /17 and shorter are
> freely handing out space. As a practical matter, we would be willing
> to pay substantially for allocations that we project will be needed in
> the future. Unfortunately, need based justification leaves us pulling
> coupons out of our proverbial ration book instead of simply bidding
> for the space that we're going to need to sustain our business. Keep
> in mind that my "need" might look like a "want" to ARIN, but that's
> all in the eye of the beholder.
In other words, because you didn't plan your address utilization as
well as your competitors did, you think nobody should have to plan?
Again, this isn't a compelling argument in my opinion. It's really not
hard to build a justified need acceptable to ARIN if you have an actual
need. I've done it many times and I've done it for several different
organizations both as an employee and as a consultant.
> As Americans, when we want or need something and we have the means to
> obtain it, we go out and buy it. The market determines the price while
> supply and demand principles ensure that those who wish to make a
> purchase are able to do so without waiting in line or being told
> they're going to have to buy something different.
For widgets, where when the store runs out, you just make more, this
makes sense. IPv4 addresses aren't widgets. They're a public community
resource of finite capacity.
There are a number of flaws in your statement here...
1. ARIN is more than America. It also includes Canada and 21 Caribbean
nations as well as some other parts of the world.
2. I consider it a feature and not a bug that IP addresses, being a community
commons resource and not property are managed according to community
based policies which, to date, have included justified need. I consider
the justified need part a good thing.
3. Markets are far from perfect. They are the best solution we have to
a number of problems, but, unregulated markets have shown time
and again that given the opportunity, people will game the system
and create and take advantage of arbitrage opportunities.
Look no further than the current real estate debacle, the savings
and loan disasters of some decades ago, Enron, Tyco, Worldcom,
etc. and you can find examples of what I am saying here.
Further, I don't believe that moving IP addresses from those with
justified need to those with more $$ in their pocket will serve
the best interests of the community.
What will happen instead is that a new class of participants which
for lack of a better term, I will call speculators, will enter the market
and drive prices up artificially. This will not improve liquidity or
increase the availability of addresses, it will merely increase the
cost of those addresses.
In short, you've done a pretty good job of convincing me that the case
to abandon needs basis is rather hollow.
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