[arin-ppml] ARIN / Microsoft press release regarding IP address Transfers

Stephen Sprunk stephen at sprunk.org
Sat Apr 16 14:02:45 EDT 2011

On 16-Apr-11 01:21, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> On 4/15/2011 9:28 PM, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
>> On 15-Apr-11 20:06, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>>> What concerns me here is that the community very much wants these
>>> transfer resources to go under RSA and be subject to fee payments.
>> And who appointed you spokesman for the entire community?
> The vast majority of posters on this list have stated they want
> transfers to END UP under an RSA. The Simplified M&A policy
> justification stated that - and that policy was adopted.
> Many posters want the SELLING organization to sign an LRSA first, before
> even being ALLOWED to "sell"
> RSA implies fee payments.
> My statement stands, with backup.


>   What about yours?

Which statement of mine are you referring to?  The only quote from me
above is a question, not a statement.

>>> With the size of the transfer that would be a very significant
>>> amount of money every year from the richest company on the planet
>>> into ARINs coffers ...
>> That depends on whether it's classified as an assignment or an
>> allocation.  If the former, which I suspect it is, the maximum
>> maintenance fee would be $100/yr, which Microsoft is already paying
>> for other resources.  IOW, there would be no net-new recurring
>> revenue to ARIN.
> That's fine with me.

So, you do not disagree with the logic?  And you admit that this
probably will not result in "a very significant amount of money every
year from the richest company on the planet into ARINs coffers"?

> However I think that the amount of IP cannot be justified unless it's
> going to MSN, it is just too large.

The details of a specific request are usually under NDA, so we must
trust that ARIN staff is following whatever policy(ies) apply to it.

>> I personally disagree with that fee structure, but that's not a
>> matter for PPML.
> Neither is this entire discussion on the Nortel transfer,

Discussion of whether NRPM 8.3 did what we wanted in such a case, and
therefore whether we need new policy for such future cases, is certainly
on-topic for PPML.

Fees are set by ARIN members, not the community as a whole, and
therefore topical only on the members' list.

>>> Claiming that "they followed the rules" means nothing because ARIN can
>>> selectively apply the rules depending on what happened.
>> ARIN staff cannot "selectively" apply rules unless the NRPM explicitly
>> gives them the authority to do so, which is rare.  What specific
>> provision granting such authority in this case are you referring?
> The NRPM has many areas ...

Non-responsive.  I asked for the specific section you're referring to
that applies to this case.  However, I'll assume it's section 8.3 since
that's the policy we've been told this transfer was processed under.

> 8.3  IPv4 number resources within the ARIN region may be released to
> Note 'may be' not 'must be'

That gives discretion to /the applicant/.  There is no grant of
discretion to /ARIN staff/ in NRPM 8.3.

> The NRPM routinely uses phrases like "may be" instead of "must be" or
> "is required to be"  The language in it takes pains in many sections
> to merely strongly encourage and not require things to happen.

The "may"s generally apply to applicants/registrants, as above.

>> If we, the community, failed to draft a policy that handled this
>> situation the way we want it handled then that's on us, the
>> community, and not ARIN staff.
> Utter baloney.  Section 8.1, 8.2 & 8.3 did not come from the
> community.  They came from ARIN Board of Trustees use of the Emergency
> Policy Development Process, not from the community.

That is such a gross oversimplification of what happened it doesn't
deserve a response.


Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

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