[arin-ppml] IPV6, Not yet (OT)

Thu Apr 14 17:47:13 EDT 2011

I hope your not holding your breath waiting for that to happen
with ANY company... ;-)

Ted

On 4/14/2011 2:38 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> I see nothing wrong with publishing the output of the marketing person.
> If it turns out to be wrong, then, it creates an incentive for the company
> to retrain their marketing people better.
>
> Owen
>
> On Apr 14, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
>> On 4/14/2011 1:58 PM, Larry Ash wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:23:39 -0700
>>> Ted Mittelstaedt<tedm at ipinc.net>  wrote:
>>>> On 4/14/2011 12:07 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>>>> You are assuming goals not in evidence. I don't seek to harm the vendor.
>>>>> I don't seek to help the vendor. If the result is equal amounts of
>>>>> help and
>>>>> harm, then, my lack of desire on either of these goals is roughly met.
>>>>>
>>>>> I seek to encourage vendors to do the right thing and add IPv6
>>>>> capabilities
>>>>> to their products. I seek to help others be aware of which products
>>>>> are and
>>>>> are not worthy of their purchasing dollars based on their IPv6
>>>>> capabilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> As such, I think that publicly naming the vendors is much better than
>>>>> not
>>>>> naming them.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well and good but in this case since the model number of the switch
>>>> that is never going to receive IPv6 support was not named, and just the
>>>> vendor was named, it is actually kind of unfair.
>>>>
>>> Fair enough, but this is why I originally didn't name them
>>> The product I was looking at is a SM24-1000SFP-AH. I had asked about
>>> that product so I don't know anything about the rest of their line.
>>> However, It is listed on their website as a new product that has
>>> 2 10Gig upload ports and 24 1 Gig interfaces with a bunch of sexy
>>> features like port authentication, build in DNS cache, OAM,
>>> ACL's, advanced QOS based on CoS or IP DSPC tags, Port Rate limits based
>>> on 802.1p or IP DSCP priority tags.
>>>
>>> After spending half a day looking at a 800+ page manual for the device the
>>> only mention of IPV6 I found was in relation to Traffic Classes relative
>>> to queuing. Hence my question to them as to was the device fully IPV6 or
>>> only minimally so. It was the answer that shocked me.
>>>
>>
>> The MIL-SM24T4DPA was the unit reviewed on the you tube video
>>
>>> I am sure that the layer two part of the switch will pass an Ethernet frame
>>> containing IPV6 payload. When a marketing person says IPV6 capable what
>>> does
>>> that mean?
>>>
>>
>> Well, technically speaking if this switch runs it's OS out of firmware
>> then it's IPv6 capable if someone just sits down and writes the firmware
>> to do it.  Just like the Linksys WRT54GS version 2 is IPv6 capable
>> because someone other than Cisco wrote the firmware to do it.  So who
>> knows what they might do in the future with their product.
>>
>>>
>>>> Unless your going to claim the YouTube video is a complete fabrication?
>>>>
>>>> Obviously Transition Networks supports IPv6. It just isn't planning on
>>>> supporting it in the particular product that Larry wanted to buy.
>>>> Perhaps that is because they are planning on sunsetting that product a
>>>> lot faster than Larry thinks, or perhaps because it is a stripped-down
>>>> product that is kind of a loss-leader for them.
>>>>
>>>> If your going to tar and feather a vendor in public about not supporting
>>>> IPv6 then you might as well tar and feather Cisco since they sell those
>>>> cheap Linksys routers many of which don't support IPv6 and never will.
>>>> (unless some smarty pants comes along and loads openwrt or some such on
>>>> them, har har)
>>>>
>>>> I think that the problem here is that since Larry didn't list the
>>>> model of the switch he was looking at, the rest of us can't go look at
>>>> it and
>>>> make any value judgements. I would bet that the switch he was looking
>>>> at was a cheap model of Transitions. So really what he's mad at is not
>>>> that the vendor doesn't support IPv6, it's that he thinks the vendor's
>>>> price for IPv6 is too high.
>>>
>>> I'm not mad just shocked. I was reviewing the switch based on
>>> requirements and
>>> to be honest haven't even asked about price. An answer of, "you need to
>>> be looking
>>> at X" would have been a totally acceptable answer. I am evaluating vendors
>>> on the customer edge to replace my Cisco equipment with an eye of having
>>> options
>>> when it's time to replace my core Cisco 6509's sometime in the near future.
>>>
>>
>> My guess is that Transition Networks suffers from the same problem
>> that many companies do, that their marketing people are more conversant
>> with the sales and dealer channels than they are about their products
>> capabilities.
>>
>> The Transition guy on the video is an application engineer and he
>> puts his real name on the video - it is Zach Sherman - and he is
>> on Linkedin.  IMHO you would have far better luck just bypassing
>> Transitions marketing people, sending him a Linkedin invite, then
>> once you get it forwarding over his marketing people's response to
>> you so that he can go rap some knuckles.
>>
>> You are correct that the marketing and sales people should have
>> steered you correctly.  But unfortunately these days it is all too common for there to be a big disconnect in companies between the
>> people making the stuff and the people selling the stuff.  A good
>> salesman who knows and understands his product line is rare to find,
>> and in some cases it's hard to find one that even understands their
>> own internal order entry system.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>>> The fact is that selling stripped-down models of things for low prices
>>>> as an introductory model is very common practice. For example a few
>>>> months ago I bought a BlueRay player from LG. It does not support
>>>> Netflix. But other players from LG do support Netflix. The difference
>>>> is the other players that support Netflix are about $50 more per player.
>>>> So using your logic I should be getting on the blogs and bitching that
>>>> LG is a bad vendor for not supporting it.
>>>>
>>>> Well the fact is that if you look at the LG product blogs you WILL find
>>>> people doing just that. Fortunately, you find more people telling them
>>>> to STFU because that is what they get for not doing their homework.
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>>> Owen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 14, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt<tedm at ipinc.net>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, here is a video of a Transition Networks guy
>>>>>> saying at least one of their Ethernet switches is IPv6
>>>>>> capable:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tw_uJXv00
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now in answer to your other question as to why people
>>>>>> don't name names, it is because there is a saying among marketing
>>>>>> folks:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "bad news is better than NO news"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've also heard it expressed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "good news is good, but bad news is also good!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Think for a moment that this list is archived. So a web robot
>>>>>> will be crawling the archive sooner or later and come across
>>>>>> the vendor name. That will give the vendor a boost in the
>>>>>> search engines. So by publicly naming the vendor, you
>>>>>> probably help them as much as you harm them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You should also keep in mind the old adage about sales
>>>>>> and marketing people:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "When do you know when a marketing or sales person is lying?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "When their lips are moving!" ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/14/2011 10:13 AM, Aaron Wendel wrote:
>>>>>>> I don't understand why people feel it necessary not to shame these
>>>>>>> vendors in public. I would like to remove them from my list as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From: *Larry Ash<lar at mwtcorp.net>*
>>>>>>> To: *arin-ppml at arin.net*
>>>>>>> Sent: *Thu, Apr 14, 2011 16:31:25 GMT+00:00*
>>>>>>> Subject: *[arin-ppml] IPV6, Not yet (OT)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry for the distraction,
>>>>>>> I send this along only to remind those of us that maintain IPV4 will
>>>>>>> die shortly,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before purchasing switching equipment for the customer edge on a
>>>>>>> metro-ethernet
>>>>>>> deployment I questioned the manufacturer about IPV6 and here was the
>>>>>>> reply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The information I received from the Product Management team is that
>>>>>>> IPV6 is
>>>>>>> not on the road map for this product at this time. If you need any
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> assistance please contact us.
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>> This is a fairly new product that has a lot of sexy features many of
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> rely on layer3 yet the manufacturer is not even planning IPV6. I did
>>>>>>> inform
>>>>>>> them that I am removing them from any consideration for any of their
>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The word is still not getting to management in a meaningful way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Larry Ash
>>>>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>>>> Mountain West Telephone
>>>>>>> 123 W 1st St.
>>>>>>> Casper, WY 82601
>>>>>>> Office 307 233-8387
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PPML
>>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>>>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PPML
>>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>>>>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> PPML
>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>>>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PPML
>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>
>>> Larry Ash
>>> Network Administrator
>>> Mountain West Telephone
>>> 123 W 1st St.
>>> Casper, WY 82601
>>> Office 307 233-8387
>
>