[arin-ppml] IPV6, Not yet (OT)
Larry Ash
lar at mwtcorp.net
Thu Apr 14 16:58:56 EDT 2011
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:23:39 -0700
Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:
> On 4/14/2011 12:07 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> You are assuming goals not in evidence. I don't seek to harm the vendor.
>> I don't seek to help the vendor. If the result is equal amounts of help
>>and
>> harm, then, my lack of desire on either of these goals is roughly met.
>>
>> I seek to encourage vendors to do the right thing and add IPv6
>>capabilities
>> to their products. I seek to help others be aware of which products are
>>and
>> are not worthy of their purchasing dollars based on their IPv6
>>capabilities.
>>
>> As such, I think that publicly naming the vendors is much better than not
>> naming them.
>>
>
> Well and good but in this case since the model number of the switch
> that is never going to receive IPv6 support was not named, and just the
> vendor was named, it is actually kind of unfair.
>
Fair enough, but this is why I originally didn't name them
The product I was looking at is a SM24-1000SFP-AH. I had asked about
that product so I don't know anything about the rest of their line.
However, It is listed on their website as a new product that has
2 10Gig upload ports and 24 1 Gig interfaces with a bunch of sexy
features like port authentication, build in DNS cache, OAM,
ACL's, advanced QOS based on CoS or IP DSPC tags, Port Rate limits based
on 802.1p or IP DSCP priority tags.
After spending half a day looking at a 800+ page manual for the device the
only mention of IPV6 I found was in relation to Traffic Classes relative
to queuing. Hence my question to them as to was the device fully IPV6 or
only minimally so. It was the answer that shocked me.
I am sure that the layer two part of the switch will pass an Ethernet frame
containing IPV6 payload. When a marketing person says IPV6 capable what does
that mean?
> Unless your going to claim the YouTube video is a complete fabrication?
>
> Obviously Transition Networks supports IPv6. It just isn't planning on
> supporting it in the particular product that Larry wanted to buy. Perhaps
>that is because they are planning on sunsetting that product a
> lot faster than Larry thinks, or perhaps because it is a stripped-down
> product that is kind of a loss-leader for them.
>
> If your going to tar and feather a vendor in public about not supporting
> IPv6 then you might as well tar and feather Cisco since they sell those
> cheap Linksys routers many of which don't support IPv6 and never will.
> (unless some smarty pants comes along and loads openwrt or some such on
> them, har har)
>
> I think that the problem here is that since Larry didn't list the model of
>the switch he was looking at, the rest of us can't go look at it and
> make any value judgements. I would bet that the switch he was looking at
>was a cheap model of Transitions. So really what he's mad at is not
> that the vendor doesn't support IPv6, it's that he thinks the vendor's
> price for IPv6 is too high.
I'm not mad just shocked. I was reviewing the switch based on requirements
and
to be honest haven't even asked about price. An answer of, "you need to be
looking
at X" would have been a totally acceptable answer. I am evaluating vendors
on the customer edge to replace my Cisco equipment with an eye of having
options
when it's time to replace my core Cisco 6509's sometime in the near future.
> The fact is that selling stripped-down models of things for low prices
> as an introductory model is very common practice. For example a few
>months ago I bought a BlueRay player from LG. It does not support Netflix.
> But other players from LG do support Netflix. The difference
> is the other players that support Netflix are about $50 more per player.
> So using your logic I should be getting on the blogs and bitching that
> LG is a bad vendor for not supporting it.
>
> Well the fact is that if you look at the LG product blogs you WILL find
> people doing just that. Fortunately, you find more people telling them to
>STFU because that is what they get for not doing their homework.
>
> Ted
>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt<tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well, here is a video of a Transition Networks guy
>>> saying at least one of their Ethernet switches is IPv6
>>> capable:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tw_uJXv00
>>>
>>> Now in answer to your other question as to why people
>>> don't name names, it is because there is a saying among marketing folks:
>>>
>>> "bad news is better than NO news"
>>>
>>> I've also heard it expressed:
>>>
>>> "good news is good, but bad news is also good!"
>>>
>>> Think for a moment that this list is archived. So a web robot
>>> will be crawling the archive sooner or later and come across
>>> the vendor name. That will give the vendor a boost in the
>>> search engines. So by publicly naming the vendor, you
>>> probably help them as much as you harm them.
>>>
>>> You should also keep in mind the old adage about sales
>>> and marketing people:
>>>
>>> "When do you know when a marketing or sales person is lying?"
>>>
>>> "When their lips are moving!" ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>> On 4/14/2011 10:13 AM, Aaron Wendel wrote:
>>>> I don't understand why people feel it necessary not to shame these
>>>> vendors in public. I would like to remove them from my list as well.
>>>>
>>>> /Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Larry Ash<lar at mwtcorp.net>*
>>>> To: *arin-ppml at arin.net*
>>>> Sent: *Thu, Apr 14, 2011 16:31:25 GMT+00:00*
>>>> Subject: *[arin-ppml] IPV6, Not yet (OT)
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the distraction,
>>>> I send this along only to remind those of us that maintain IPV4 will
>>>> die shortly,
>>>>
>>>> Before purchasing switching equipment for the customer edge on a
>>>> metro-ethernet
>>>> deployment I questioned the manufacturer about IPV6 and here was the
>>>> reply.
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>> The information I received from the Product Management team is that
>>>> IPV6 is
>>>> not on the road map for this product at this time. If you need any
>>>>other
>>>> assistance please contact us.
>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>> This is a fairly new product that has a lot of sexy features many of
>>>> which
>>>> rely on layer3 yet the manufacturer is not even planning IPV6. I did
>>>> inform
>>>> them that I am removing them from any consideration for any of their
>>>> products.
>>>>
>>>> The word is still not getting to management in a meaningful way.
>>>>
>>>> Larry Ash
>>>> Network Administrator
>>>> Mountain West Telephone
>>>> 123 W 1st St.
>>>> Casper, WY 82601
>>>> Office 307 233-8387
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PPML
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PPML
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
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Larry Ash
Network Administrator
Mountain West Telephone
123 W 1st St.
Casper, WY 82601
Office 307 233-8387
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