[arin-ppml] RIPE/ITU

[Owen DeLong]

According to the ITU presentation by Xiaoya yesterday:

a) IPv4 early adopter advantage/late adopter disadvantage should
	not be repeated in IPv6.
b) "Developing Nations" - The ITU did not specify which ones.
c) Was not covered by the ITU presentation.
d) From the presentation, it sounded like the ITU may submit
	their desire to become an additional registry through the
	global policy process if that's what they decide to do.  The
	ITU was clear that nothing has yet been decided, they are
	"considering" this matter. The ITU representative did
	express surprise and dismay at the level of "overreaction"
	from the community at the APNIC meeting.
e) To at least some extent, they did so yesterday. I think the
	meeting yesterday was a very good beginning and that
	it was a useful and productive discussion.

I still think that the idea of the ITU possible CIR model as currently
described would be extremely destructive to the good of the internet
and likely harmful to the very countries that the ITU is claiming they
are attempting to benefit. However, I will say that the ITU does seem
to be making an attempt to reach out and open a dialog.

There's a _LOT_ of cultural difference between the ITU organization
and the RIR communities. The ITU has extremely structured
membership and is very much oriented to being a forum for
governments, although industry "sector" members are permitted
for $20,000/year. ITU meetings are strictly limited to members.

While I believe that the RIR system is vastly better at representing
the interests of all stakeholders, I also accept that it is a very
unfamiliar and difficult concept for someone with a strong
regulatory background to grasp.

I think that the discussion yesterday was a good beginning to
bridging that gap. I hope that the ITU will continue to make efforts
to keep an open dialogue with the RIR communities. I think that one
potentially ideal outcome of this process would be for the ITU
to merely recognize the current RIR structure as the proper
forum for internet number resource policies and refer their
interested members to that forum.

I have no idea how amenable the ITU might be to such an idea.

I think the best hope of a good outcome will be the result of
continued dialogue.

Owen

On Mar 3, 2010, at 11:51 PM, Frank Bulk - iName.com wrote:

> This part of the discussion touches on some of the fundamental questions I
> have about ITU-T's interest in IP address allocation:
> (a) what does the ITU-T see as the problem with the current system?
> (b) who are the concerns persons/groups that are telling the ITU-T that
> there is a problem, and why aren't their letters/concerns shared on the
> ITU-T's website?
> (c) have those persons/groups raised the concerns with the applicable
> RIR(s)?
> (d) if it's a matter of underrepresentation (i.e. under-developed countries
> aren't asking for resources because they're not able to or don't currently
> need do), why doesn't the ITU-T recommend an appropriate policy to each of
> the RIRs or write an IETF draft that addresses the issue(s)?
> (e) why doesn't the ITU-T visit and work with the existing address
> allocation bodies, namely the RIR(s), rather than work outside the current
> process?
> 
> Frank
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of William Herrin
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 9:07 AM
> To: Milton L Mueller; John Curran; arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] RIPE/ITU
> 
>> Le 01/03/2010 08:46, Milton L Mueller a écrit :
>>> As I've said, it's all about the policies. If the ITU or
>> anyone else wants to discuss and promote more
>> reasonable policies I'm all for it. ITU can serve as
>> a useful countervailing force to the RIR monopoly,
>> just as it has with ICANN.
> 
> Hi Milton,
> 
> I don't see how it helps to have entities compete at the process of
> giving away a combination of a free-pool resource (IPv6 addresses) and
> other peoples' money (the routing slots they use).
> 
> If ITU wants in the IR game that badly, I'd like to see them take on
> something that the RIRs aren't already dealing with. Perhaps they
> could draft an RFC and global policy requesting that IANA delegate
> fc00::/8 to ITU. Whether they ever see an expanded role in IP address
> management would, of course, then depend on how open and
> cost-effective a job they do with that off-Internet pool.
> 
> 
> ITU seems to have talked themselves down from wanting to control ICANN
> to wanting to control IANA to wanting to be a competitive IR under
> IANA. They have a little ways to go yet before they come close to
> talking sense.
> 
> I could be mistaken, but it seems to me there's essentially no chance
> of the ARIN community supporting a global proposal to make ITU a
> competitive IR for public Internet addresses. I would also be
> surprised if the other regions welcome ITU treading on their turf.
> 
> Pushing the issue seems to me like an awful lot of effort for ITU to
> go to just to make a political statement that's as likely as not to
> backfire and remind everybody why upon the end of NSF funding for the
> InterNIC a decade and change ago, ITU was not invited to step up.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> William D. Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
> 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/>
> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
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