[arin-ppml] How bad is it really?

Jon Lewis jlewis at lewis.org
Wed Jul 14 13:39:09 EDT 2010

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010, Dave Feuer  wrote:

> Drifting from the original question which was how much space like this 
> is out there... But, how is that being checked? Here is what I see as 
> the issue, and feel free to call me out if I am way off base. We had IP 
> space from UUnet (remember them) back in the late 90’s till early 2001, 
> we shut it down more than 9 years ago range was /23. If I 
> query the WhoIs now I see the following:
> CustName:   Systems & Software
> RegDate:    1998-02-09
> Updated:    2003-05-30
> That’s us, so as far as the world knows we have that space. So the IPs 
> went from UUnet to MCI to Verizon through the M&A’s. Last year when we 
> were getting our own allocation I saw this and sent 2 emails to them and 
> then promptly forgot about it. But technically it’s still pointing to us 
> and VZ can use it as a justification to get more IP space. If you query

This makes me wonder how many networks have been doing this as a long term 
game plan for IPv4 runout?  i.e. is this just broken turn-down procedure / 
sloppy IP management, or intentional fraud for the ARIN auditors so they 
can keep qualifying for more space?  When IPv4 runout happens, they may be 
able to keep doing business as usual on IPv4 for years by finally 
recycling all the unused space they've accumulated.

Where I work, the company has reinvented itself multiple times going from 
regional dial-up provider to DSL provider (not much of a change...but both 
burn up lots of IPs), to VOIP provider, to colo/data center provider. 
Each time things have changed, as one type of business was shut down, the 
IPs got freed up and reused.  It's meant that we haven't had to go back to 
ARIN very much for IPs because it seems like each time things have started 
to get tight (getting close to 80% utilization of all our space, not just 
the most recent allocation) the business model changes, space gets freed 
up, and we don't immediately need any more.  Perhaps I've been short 
sighted and should have just kept asking for more space every 6 months.

I've seen the same thing, where large provider IP space associated with a 
trasit T1 stays swipped ~10 years after the T1 was cancelled and the IPs 
are clearly not routed (seen by routing loops in traceroute).

Unfortunnately, I don't think better auditing by ARIN is a feasible 
solution...at least not to the degree that would be necessary to 
differentiate ghost customers from live ones.  i.e. does anyone really 
want the ARIN auditors asking for proof of most recent payment for each 
customer you've swip'd space to?

  Jon Lewis                   |  I route
  Senior Network Engineer     |  therefore you are
  Atlantic Net                |
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