[arin-ppml] How bad is it really?

Dave Feuer dave at connetrix.com
Wed Jul 14 12:49:48 EDT 2010

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
Date:  Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:02:14 -0400

>On Jul 12, 2010, at 2:38 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>> Keep in mind that Section 3.6.1 requires ARIN to publish a list of
>> invalid POCS, so we should have in a year or two a list of subnets
>> that are "ripe for mining" as they say.  
>Ted is right on target here, and we're proceeding with POC 
>validation at an aggressive rate.  (For more information, see 
>We're presently sending out 7500 validation requests each week,
>and getting just over a 33% update rate on those requests. It's
>too early to draw conclusions, but there's obviously ample space
>which presently lacks a responsive contact.  We'll provide a more
>detailed update on POC validation during the October PPML meeting.

Drifting from the original question which was how much space like this is out there...
But, how is that being checked? Here is what I see as the issue, and feel free to call me out if I am way off base.
We had IP space from UUnet (remember them) back in the late 90’s till early 2001, we shut it down more than 9 years ago range was /23. If I query the WhoIs now I see the following:

CustName:   Systems & Software
Address:    One Ames Ct. suite 108
City:       Plainview
StateProv:  NY
PostalCode: 11803
Country:    US
RegDate:    1998-02-09
Updated:    2003-05-30

NetRange: - 
NetName:    UU-208-236-182
NetHandle:  NET-208-236-182-0-1
Parent:     NET-208-192-0-0-1
NetType:    Reassigned
RegDate:    1998-02-09
Updated:    2003-05-30

RTechHandle: OA12-ARIN
RTechName:   UUnet Technologies, Inc., Technologies 
RTechPhone:  +1-800-900-0241
RTechEmail:  help4u at verizonbusiness.com 

OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE3-ARIN
OrgAbuseName:   abuse 
OrgAbusePhone:  +1-800-900-0241
OrgAbuseEmail:  abuse-mail at verizonbusiness.com

OrgNOCHandle: OA12-ARIN
OrgNOCName:   UUnet Technologies, Inc., Technologies 
OrgNOCPhone:  +1-800-900-0241
OrgNOCEmail:  help4u at verizonbusiness.com

OrgTechHandle: JHU140-ARIN
OrgTechName:   Huffines, Jody 
OrgTechPhone:  +1-703-886-6093
OrgTechEmail:  Jody.Huffines at verizonbusiness.com

OrgTechHandle: SWIPP-ARIN
OrgTechName:   swipper 
OrgTechPhone:  +1-800-900-0241
OrgTechEmail:  swipper at verizonbusiness.com


That’s us, so as far as the world knows we have that space. So the IPs went from UUnet to MCI to Verizon through the M&A’s. Last year when we were getting our own allocation I saw this and sent 2 emails to them and then promptly forgot about it. But technically it’s still pointing to us and VZ can use it as a justification to get more IP space. If you query the main netblock you get the same info. So if you do send out an email to them for the 1000’s of subnets do you really think they are going to check each one or just blindly say “yes we are using it”. 

I have, since Monday when I brought this up called some other people I know who have had different providers through the years and found as of now about a dozen /24’s or larger blocks still pointing to places that don’t use them or are not in business anymore. One of which is actually a pile of rubble in Veags, but that’s another story. As a side note on human nature, nobody else wanted me to put up their IP info for fear or “rocking the boat”. 


>John Curran
>President and CEO
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