[arin-ppml] How bad is it really?

[Lee Howard]

I shouldn't get involved in this.

[RE: Verizon SWIP elided]
There's nothing wrong with an ISP providing their contact information 
on the record.  They do need to clean up their database.

History:
Policy proposal 2002-8 https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2002_8.html
said you could privatize some contact information, as long as there was at 
least one responsive contact.  The text now found in NRPM 3.3 is terser.
It was discussed at the public policy meeting 
https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_X/ppm_minutes.html#2002_8

The intent of this policy, as I recall, was to ensure that there was at least 
one responsive contact, where in many cases the end-user was not a 
network administrator, and would not be able to respond to reports of 
network incidents.  There was no debate on the mailing list, and it was
clear from the discussion (it passed 53-0) that every ISP intended to 
substitute their own NOC info for their customers, except when the
customer had a good contact.

So UUNET provided NOC info instead of customer info.  I made that 
decision.  I made it based on my understanding of policy and best 
practice at the time.

Also around that time, I staffed up a "disconnect" team at UUNET
(then MCI/WorldCom).  I had five full-time people dedicated to 
clearing out records from disconnecting customers.  It's hard work;
you have to check every single record of the customer to see whether
the customer has truly disconnected, or just moved, and whether they
or somebody else is now using that resource (port, address, domain).
It takes an hour to clean out records from one customer.
Although I was able to show that we saved money by dedicating
staff to it, this was the time of layoffs, following WorldCom's fraud.
The team was understaffed.  Not much later, I quit.

Lee



> Drifting from the original  question which was how much space like this is out 
>there...
> But, how is that  being checked? Here is what I see as the issue, and feel free 
>to call me out if  I am way off base.
> We had IP space from UUnet (remember them) back in the  late 90’s till early 
>2001, we shut it down more than 9 years ago range was  280.236.182.0 /23. If I 
>query the WhoIs now I see the  following:
> 
> CustName:   Systems & Software
> Address:     One Ames Ct. suite 108
> City:        Plainview
> StateProv:  NY
> PostalCode: 11803
> Country:     US
> RegDate:    1998-02-09
> Updated:     2003-05-30
> 
> NetRange:   208.236.182.0 - 208.236.183.255 
> CIDR:       208.236.182.0/23 
> NetName:     UU-208-236-182
> NetHandle:  NET-208-236-182-0-1
> Parent:      NET-208-192-0-0-1
> NetType:    Reassigned
> Comment:    
> RegDate:    1998-02-09
> Updated:     2003-05-30
> 
> RTechHandle: OA12-ARIN
> RTechName:   UUnet  Technologies, Inc., Technologies 
> RTechPhone:   +1-800-900-0241
> RTechEmail:  help4u at verizonbusiness.com 
> 
> OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE3-ARIN
> OrgAbuseName:   abuse 
> OrgAbusePhone:  +1-800-900-0241
> OrgAbuseEmail:  abuse-mail at verizonbusiness.com
> 
> OrgNOCHandle:  OA12-ARIN
> OrgNOCName:   UUnet Technologies, Inc., Technologies 
> OrgNOCPhone:  +1-800-900-0241
> OrgNOCEmail:  help4u at verizonbusiness.com
> 
> OrgTechHandle:  JHU140-ARIN
> OrgTechName:   Huffines, Jody 
> OrgTechPhone:   +1-703-886-6093
> OrgTechEmail:  Jody.Huffines at verizonbusiness.com
> 
> OrgTechHandle:  SWIPP-ARIN
> OrgTechName:   swipper 
> OrgTechPhone:   +1-800-900-0241
> OrgTechEmail:  swipper at verizonbusiness.com
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
> That’s  us, so as far as the world knows we have that space. So the IPs went 
>from UUnet  to MCI to Verizon through the M&A’s. Last year when we were getting 
>our own  allocation I saw this and sent 2 emails to them and then promptly 
>forgot about  it. But technically it’s still pointing to us and VZ can use it as 
>a  justification to get more IP space. If you query the main netblock you get 
>the  same info. So if you do send out an email to them for the 1000’s of subnets 
>do  you really think they are going to check each one or just blindly say “yes 
>we  are using it”. 
>
> 
> I have, since Monday when I brought this up called some  other people I know 
>who have had different providers through the years and found  as of now about a 
>dozen /24’s or larger blocks still pointing to places that  don’t use them or 
>are not in business anymore. One of which is actually a pile  of rubble in 
>Veags, but that’s another story. As a side note on human nature,  nobody else 
>wanted me to put up their IP info for fear or “rocking the boat”. 
>
> 
> -Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >/John
> >
> >John  Curran
> >President and  CEO
> >ARIN
> >
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