[arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right of Education

Ted Mittelstaedt tedm at ipinc.net
Mon Nov 30 14:15:53 EST 2009 

Christopher Mettin wrote:
> Our postal address is as follows:
> 
> Gymnasium Querfurt High School
> An der Geispromenade 29
> Querfurt, ST 06268
> 
> And an IP for example is 217.234.79.76, which is dynamically assigned by a
> German Service Provider.
> 
> As far as I could figure it out, we get assignments in the range from
> 217.334.0.1 to 217.334.255.254.
> 

That would be extremely difficult since that's not even a legal IP 
address.  You sure you don't mean

217.234.0.1 to 217.234.255.254

> Why do you need that?
> 
> Ah yeah, I am sorry if I have never told it in that way, legally the school
> is actually on American ground, we even have a Union flag with 51 stars in
> front of the school building. 
> 

That makes no difference at all.  Your postal address is located in
Germany so you fall under RIPE's (Réseaux IP Européens ) jurisdiction. 
The NIC's jurisdiction covers geographic, NOT legal, regions.  RIPE's
name is French anyway, so I'm not sure why you think RIPE has anything
to do with Nazi's.

Any "request" for IP numbering to ARIN from you will be rejected and
referred to RIPE, and in any case you almost certainly don't meet the
minimum utilization requirements, much less even if you got them, nobody
is going to route them for you, not at least without spending a LOT more
money than you are now on connectivity.

If your IP addressing is in fact 217.234.0.1 to 217.234.255.254 then
your ISP is  Deutsche Telekom AG.  And DT AG definitely DOES provide
static IP addresses - just NOT to their HOME accounts.

Your at a school - so if your running a home DSL line on a Speedport 
303v from DTAG or something like that, your already being given the 
cheaper residential rates by DTAG purely out of the kindness of their 
hearts - in actuality your school DOESN'T deserve them.  You SHOULD be 
paying the more expensive business rates - which come with a static IP 
address.

There's http://www.dyndns.com/ for people like you who are running
dynamic IP addresses on cheap home DSL lines and who want to setup
servers.  Instead of wasting your time here, I suggest you go out and
buy a decent router from the http://www.dd-wrt.com list of supported
routers, set your DSL modem up in Bridged mode and input the dyndns
servers into your router and have at it. There's plenty of people on
DTAG who have done that who have written up explanations of how to
do that on the Internet, and many in Germany.  You probably live within
20km of someone who has done it and can come over and help you if you
can't figure it out yourself.

Ted

> Any other questions?
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> Christopher Mettin
> Gymnasium Querfurt High School
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com [mailto:bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com] 
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 4:23 PM
> To: Christopher Mettin
> Cc: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right of
> Education
> 
>  the national science foundation is not under the department of defense.
>  and actually, they did - due to agreement within the then Federal
> Networking
>  Council - transfering responsiblity to the NSF from DoD.
> 
>  for further edification, may I ask a few questions?
> 
>  ) can you provide a postal address for Gymnasium Querfurt High School?
>  ) what prefix(es) are you currently using? dynamic assignements from your
> 	ISP are fine.
> 
> --bill 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 03:58:36PM +0100, Christopher Mettin wrote:
>> Is the NSF an agency under the Department of Defense? If not they had no
>> right to delegate ARIN control over IP address registrations.
>> And unfortunately I know what it means if a government organization
> approves
>> a plan of a commercial company -> lobbying. Not that lobbying would be
>> something bad, but sometimes it looks like not everyone was asked.
>>
>> Sincerely yours,
>> Christopher Mettin
>> Gymnasium Querfurt High School
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com [mailto:bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com]
> 
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:18 AM
>> To: Milton L Mueller
>> Cc: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com; Christopher Mettin
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right of
>> Education
>>
>>
>>  well - here is one...
>>
>> 	http://128.150.4.107/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=102819
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com [mailto:bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com]
> 
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 1:38 AM
>> To: Christopher Mettin
>> Cc: bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right of
>> Education
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 04:09:25PM +0100, Christopher Mettin wrote:
>>> But would there generally be a problem with my model of assigning IP
>>> addresses to educational institutions through GQHS as LIR?
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Sincerely yours,
>>> Christopher Mettin
>>> Gymnasium Querfurt High School
>>>
>> 	don't really know.  you'd have to ask ARIN.
>> 	and since this is the public policy list, not sure
>> 	that asking here is the same as asking ARIN.
>>
>> --bill
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 07:14:11PM -0500, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>>> Bill 
>>> Would like to see any documents memorializing the "consent of the
>> governments of the region." 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]
> On
>>>> Behalf Of bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:10 AM
>>>> To: Christopher Mettin
>>>> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the Right
>> of
>>>> Education
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ARIN manages the IP space for its region based on the consent of its
>>>> members and the governments in that region.
>>>>
>>>> ARINs finances are a matter of public record - you can find them on
> the
>>>> ARIN web site.
>>>>
>>>> As for your proposal to replace ARIN with GQHS, I for one, would like
> to
>>>> see the dialog between you/GQHS and the IANA as a matter of public
>> record.
>>>> If you would like to change the ARIN proceedures for address
> allocation
>>>> and
>>>> stewardship - the process is open and available to all.  You just have
>> to
>>>> convince others to agree with you on your well thought out, viable
>>>> alternative.
>>>>
>>>> Please ensure that you either cover all the things ARIN does or find
>> other
>>>> parties to take on those roles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Luck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 01:53:26PM +0100, Christopher Mettin wrote:
>>>>> ARIN Community,
>>>>>
>>>>> Why does ARIN manage the IP addresses allocated to North America?
> Did
>>>> they
>>>>> win a competition in cost-effeteness and reliability?
>>>>>
>>>>> And does ARIN show a proof that the fees cover at least 90% of their
>>>>> operating costs?
>>>>>
>>>>> If IANA would replace ARIN with GQHS today, I could offer everyone a
>> /20
>>>>> block for just $10 annually and no cent more. GQHS will also have
> less
>>>>> operation costs and that will save our environment a lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will propose this idea to IANA soon. Maybe "Virginian non-profit"
>>>> actually
>>>>> means they just don't have any stocks but I bet they make a million
>>>> revenue
>>>>> each year. At all, they are not the right organization to manage IP
>>>>> addresses it seems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone a problem with IP addresses given away for as cheap as a
>> .com
>>>>> domain?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely yours,
>>>>> Christopher
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Per Heldal [mailto:heldal at eml.cc]
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:05 AM
>>>>> To: Christopher Mettin
>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP Address Fee Structure Policy and the
> Right
>>>> of
>>>>> Education
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/29/2009 02:16 AM, Christopher Mettin wrote:
>>>>>> The fact that one can't access the Internet without an IP address
>> and
>>>> that
>>>>>> ARIN sells them.
>>>>> RIR's don't sell IP-addresses. Addresses are assigned for a
> documented
>>>>> purpose. The RIRs are not-for-profit organisations. The fee is not
> for
>>>>> the IP-addresses themselves, but rather to cover the administrative
>>>>> costs of running the RIR-operations organization.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> My suggestion would be that you hit up your respective ISPs to
> give
>>>> you
>>>>>>> static addresses at no extra charge for the good will and
> possible
>>>> tax
>>>>>>> benefits.  Even if they're only willing to give you /29s, you can
>>>>>>> harmonize your RFC1918 address space use and use VPNs that
> properly
>>>>>>> reflect your security policies.
>>>>>> Yep, VPS, you cannot set them up so easily if you don't have a
>>>> commonly
>>>>>> known (static) IP address of the end-point. Where should we send
> the
>>>> VPS
>>>>>> connection request if our IP always changes? Maybe try out every
>> host
>>>> on
>>>>> the
>>>>>> entire ISP subnet?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our Internet connection is paid by the state. And under the
> current
>>>>> contract
>>>>>> we actually even not allowed to publish a simple website from our
>>>> network.
>>>>>> So why should they give us a static IP to make it easier for us to
>> do
>>>> so?
>>>>> You can not blame the internet-community for your organisation's
>> failure
>>>>> to negotiate a contract that meets your needs. I doubt you'll find a
>>>>> serious SP anywhere that doesn't offer contracts that include static
>>>>> addressing. So far there's been no mention of a need for
> multi-homing
>>>>> which normally is the key requirement to justify direct assignments.
>>>>> What difference does the fee make if you don't qualify for an
>> allocation
>>>>> in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> So the reason why ARIN should change its policies is that we want
>> ARIN
>>>> to
>>>>>> allocate us some IP addresses which are the only way for us to
> solve
>>>> our
>>>>>> little problem.
>>>>> You should resolve this with the people who are responsible for a
>>>>> service-contract that doesn't meet your functional requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> //per
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PPML
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>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PPML
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> 
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