[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal: Open Access To IPv6

[Garry Dolley]

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:45:57AM +0000, bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 05:00:38PM -0700, Garry Dolley wrote:
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 09:28:19PM +0000, bmanning at vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
> > > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 02:04:22PM -0700, Garry Dolley wrote:
> > > > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 04:15:02PM -0400, Leo Bicknell wrote:
> > > > > To that end, I can't support the proposal as written.  As one
> > > > > commenter asked, "what if my kids want an IPv6 network to play with
> > > > > in their garage?"  Well, we should find some way to accomodate that
> > > > > which doesn't require service providers worldwide to spend tens of
> > > > > thousands of dollars upgrading routers to hold the routes.
> > > > 
> > > > Exactly.  There's really no reason I should bear the cost of
> > > > carrying your route because your kids want to learn about IPv6.  I
> > > > wholeheartedly want to support learning about IPv6, esp. for the next
> > > > generation of network operators, but doing so in a way that taxes
> > > > third party network hardware, for no reason, is not the way to do it.
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Garry Dolley
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 	i'm sorry - this smacks of shear laziness.
> > > 	trying to get ARIN to manage your routing table
> > > 	is kind of like asking your mom to still do your
> > > 	laundry.
> > 
> > Researching every /32 to see if it is worthy of being in your
> > routing table is not practical.  It is not a laziness issue.
> 
> 	your telling me what is practical for me to do?
> 	very kind of you indeed.

I did not mean you personally.

> 	however i beg to disagree - i ensure that i have the
> 	specifics i know i want and then proxy aggregate most 
> 	everything else.  there are even a few prefixes for which
> 	i -never- want to see traffic from and I block them.
> 
> 	i'd posit that most folks do something very similar.

This model doesn't work for me, and I would imagine most ISPs.

> > > 	no one is -forcing- you to accept any route whatsoever.
> > > 	your router, your choice.
> > 
> > Yes, but practically speaking, I can accept all /32's or none of
> > them, with a little wiggle room with filters.  
> 
> 	i can't tell you what is practical for you.
> 
> > I can set up filters, sure, but anyone running a multi-homed network
> > with real customers, peers, and traffic knows that maintaining
> > filters that actually work well is almost a lesson in futility.  
> 
> 	routing has not been "fire and forget" for many years.
> 	if you don't pay attention, your going to get burned.
> 
> > > 	do the thought experiment... how many /32s are there in
> > > 	the IPv6 universe?  Got a router for that?  Didn't think so.
> > > 
> > > 	Folk are going to have to face the fact that they can't
> > > 	depend on their benevolent RIR to manage the potential size
> > > 	of the routing table anymore...  
> > 
> > But what we can do is try to promote policy that doesn't give out
> > prefixes like they are going out of style.  Every /32 prefix
> > assigned and announced takes up one more RIB slot for me and every
> > other ISP on the planet.  So, I'm going to do what I can to save
> > that resource.
> 
> 	borrowing your metaphor, I'd like to see one family of
> 	prefixes come into style... and if that means treating them
> 	like loss-leaders for a bit, then I guess that is what needs
> 	to happen.  Then, we can start worrying about them going 
> 	out of style.
> 
> 	I'll reiterate again.  Just becauase I get a /32 and announce
> 	it to my peers, is zero reason for you to hold it (at all,
> 	or for any length of time, or in perpetutity).   Folks
> 	really need to wean themsleves of the dependency on an RIR
> 	to craft their routing policies.  

I'm not asking for the RIR to craft routing policies, even if the
policy does help / hurt routing.  I'm asking for a /32 not to be a
default assignment without any restrictions.

-- 
Garry Dolley
ARP Networks, Inc. | http://www.arpnetworks.com | (818) 206-0181
Data center, VPS, and IP Transit solutions
Member Los Angeles County REACT, Unit 336 | WQGK336
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