[arin-ppml] Will the price per IP really be affected by thetransfer market introduced in 2009-1?

[Martin Hannigan]

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Martin Hannigan
>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:34 AM
>> To: ARIN PPML
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Will the price per IP really be
>> affected by thetransfer market introduced in 2009-1?
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt
>> <tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ah, but your point is dependent on how an ISP views it's market.
>> >
>>
>> [ snip ]
>>
>> > If transfer pricing does not rise high enough to make it worthwhile
>> > for orgs to spend the money to renumber out of it, then the orgs
>> > won't, and the transfer market will never come into existence.
>>
>> The transfer market already exists.
>>
>
> That statement exhibits the fallacy of petitio principii and doesn't even
> justify a response.
>

And that one exhibits a clear lack of knowledge as to what's actually
occurring outside of ARIN today. There is documented proof of a
'transfer' market. There are not many people denying it these days.


>> > Thus, let me put my original question a bit differently.
>> How much of
>> > an increase for IPv4 can YOU absorb?  How much do you think your
>> > competitors can absorb?  How much do you think the industry can
>> > absorb?  If it's not a large amount, then how exactly will
>> a transfer
>> > market in IPv4 reach critical mass to enable it to get started?
>>
>>
>> You wouldn't  "absorb" anything. If you spent(cost) $10K per
>> month leasing IPv4 address space and that could be correlated
>> to a return on the expense (growth, revenue),
>
> A transfer market, as we have been discussing here, isn't "monthly leasing"
> I am not sure where your getting this idea from.

The PPML discussion (by some) demonstrates how broken that "transfer"
process is and leasing is one of many methods to exploit that process.
I take my /8, I carve it up into /16's to be a good net.citizen, I
allocate (lease) them myself passing LOA

Are you actually saying that there are no markets operating and that
the circumventions being described won't/don't, or are you simply
playing word games with me to elongate the thread?

Best,

Martin