[arin-ppml] Effect of ARIN's Letters

[Scott Leibrand]

George,

I'll let others discuss the relative merits of trying to force people to 
stop using IPv4...

It's worth noting, though, that what you are describing as BGP6 is 
actually already in place, and is called 4-byte (or 32-bit) ASNs. The 
RIRs are already giving out 4-byte ASNs to organizations that request 
ASNs, unless they specifically request a 2-byte ASN (which most still 
do, unfortunately, because router OS support itsn't there yet for many 
platforms).

Also, I don't see any link between the ASN type (2-byte vs. 4-byte) and 
the IP version (IPv4 vs. IPv6). They just happen to be to different 
numbering spaces that both have to be expanded at about the same time.

-Scott

Davey, George wrote:
>
> The interesting thing is that the big ISPs do not want IPV6 because 
> once the IPV4 addresses run out, they have a monopoly and they love 
> monopolies.
>
> The telcos are expressing this desire by their apparent reluctance to 
> IPV6.
>
> There is also the expense factor and the non-desire of customers to 
> care about IPV anything. They just want web pages to come up and IPV6 
> inhibits not helps.
>
> The thing for ARIN and ICANN need to do is to set a sunset date by 
> which IPV4 IPs are obsolete and by which the ASN database for them 
> will be purged.
>
> Problem is there is no ASN to replace them and that is the flaw in the 
> IPV6 implementational logic.
>
> IPv4 will persist until such time.
>
> Hopefully they can come up with BGP6 for IPV6 that will host millions 
> of ISPs not just 65,535, and set a sunset date for BGP4 and the 
> current ASN numbers associated with them.
>
> This will force a “Gold Rush” and if ARIN was smart instead of just a 
> steward (whatever that is) they would open it back up just like it was 
> 1992 all over again.
>
> A whole new crop of ISPs would take part in the Gold Rush.
>
> Until then I will grasp my IPV4 blocks until they pry them from my 
> cold dead hands.
>
>
> 	
>
> < Des Moines University - Osteopathic Medical Center >
>
>
> 	
>
>
> George Davey, B.S. MCSE
> /Network Administrator/
> 3200 Grand Avenue
> Des Moines, IA 50312
> 515.271.1544
> FAX 515.271.7063
>
> CELL 515.480.1605
> George.Davey at dmu.edu
> www.dmu.edu
>
> 	
>
> *From:* arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] 
> *On Behalf Of *Ted Mittelstaedt
> *Sent:* Friday, May 01, 2009 12:02 PM
> *To:* 'Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond'; ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Effect of ARIN's Letters
>
> The problem is what do your customers want?
>
> As a smaller ISP we can't set policy on the Internet. We aren't 
> bringing customers onboard at the
>
> rate of hundreds a day where we can afford to scrape the 2-3 annoying 
> and demanding ones off our
>
> shoes. We are concerned about losing even a single customer - it won't 
> break us, but we aren't
>
> complacent about it either.
>
> As long as there's customers on the Internet that can demand and get 
> routable IPv4 addresses from
>
> our competitors, we will have to offer IPv4. We don't have the luxury 
> of a Verizon or a Qwest to be
>
> able to look that customer in the eye and say "NO, and nobody else is 
> going to give you one either"
>
> and have the customer curse and swear at us but, due to cut-rate 
> pricing or contracts, other bundling and
>
> marketing stuff that allows us to lock in that customer, be able to 
> force our will on them.
>
> And before you start saying that these large ISPs can't force 
> customers to do anything, I see it
>
> happening all the time. All they have to do is cut their monthly rate 
> below ours - and it doesn't
>
> take much - and there's a lot of customers out there who will do 
> whatever they tell them to. We have
>
> even lost customers to the big guys who ended up paying MORE to the 
> big guys - but went to them
>
> solely because they got a unified telephone/internet bill from a 
> single provider, and they had some
>
> accountant 2000 miles away paying the bill who wanted it that way.
>
> SO, we will be more than happy to 'reclaim and share those crumbs". It 
> will keep us alive for
>
> a long enough time for the big guys to start playing hardball with 
> their customers and forcing
>
> them to IPv6. Once the big guys start telling their customers NO (or 
> more likely that it will
>
> cost them plenty) to get IPv4, then we will be able to raise prices or 
> do whatever it takes to make
>
> our customers go to IPv6 as well.
>
> Ted
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:* arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>     [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] *On Behalf Of *Olivier MJ
>     Crepin-Leblond
>     *Sent:* Friday, May 01, 2009 12:38 AM
>     *To:* ppml at arin.net
>     *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Effect of ARIN's Letters
>
>     The good news is that we're discussing this on the ARIN list,
>     rather than debating policies about IPv4 reclaiming which I
>     personally equate to reclaiming and sharing of crumbs. Nobody's
>     ever survived on crumbs that size.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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