[arin-ppml] [arin-announce] Policy Proposal: Transfer listingservice

Kevin Kargel kkargel at polartel.com
Fri Jun 12 17:06:49 EDT 2009

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Vest [mailto:tvest at pch.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:13 PM
> To: Kevin Kargel
> Cc: Scott Leibrand; michael.dillon at bt.com; arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] [arin-announce] Policy Proposal: Transfer
> listingservice
> On Jun 12, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Kevin Kargel wrote:
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-
> >> bounces at arin.net] On
> >> Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
> >> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:09 AM
> >> To: <michael.dillon at bt.com>
> >> Cc: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] [arin-announce] Policy Proposal: Transfer
> >> listingservice
> >>
> >> That might work too, but ARIN counsel, the AC, and others involved
> >> thought it belonged in the 2008-2 transfer policy, and the CEO has
> >> said they don't plan to do a listing service without policy directing
> >> them to do so.
> >>
> >> What do you think of the idea itself?
> >>
> >> -Scott
> >>
> >
> > I probably should have mentioned that it is a nifty idea if it was
> > just us
> > NetOps working with each other and the lawyers and governments would
> > keep
> > out of it.  I just don't see much hope that the litigators and
> > regulators
> > will keep their fingers out of the pie.
> Hi Kevin,
> Out of curiosity, do you think that litigators and regulators are more
> likely (or maybe very likely) to keep their fingers out if, after
> enabling the emergence of commercial IPv4 transfers, the RIRs take no
> further actions of any kind related to any IPv4 markets that emerge
> thereafter? Are your views on that probability-of-intervention
> question based on any particular expectation about whether and how
> IPv4 markets will actually work, or are they independent of all such
> expectations (i.e., no matter how things turn out, it would be better
> in all cases for the RIRs to take no position / no action at all)?
> TV

My expectation is now that we have valuated IP addresses that value and/or
the 'ownership' of that value will be contested in courts which will bring
in litigators.  Litigators will establish precedents and points in law that
will now have to be considered in all matters.  Record keeping requirements
will be much stricter to defend against legal actions.  

My expectation is also now that there is a quantifiable value assigned to IP
addresses that governments will find a way to tax them, at the very least
with sales tax on the exchange or transfer of a valued property, possibly
also with a use tax and/or a recurring property tax.  Once governments have
their pinkies in the mix then special interest groups will push government
to regulate the distribution and use of IP addresses and the governments
will be anxious to regulate the product in order to justify the taxes.  

I fear that 2009-1 has doomed us to a future of cost, cost controls and
regulation and there is nothing we can do about it now.  The sleeping bear
has been nudged and will soon awake.  This is beyond our control anymore.

The best course of action we can take is to tread softly, make minimal
changes and not arouse the bear any faster than we have to.
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