[arin-ppml] (no subject)

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Mon Dec 7 15:18:42 EST 2009

> Why, practically, should holding 9 IP's rather then 7 change the  
> requirements for that burden
Because you have to draw the line somewhere, and, 8 is where the line  
is currently drawn in IPv4.

Realistically, <=8 IPs covers the vast majority of residential IPv4  
needs and a great many small
businesses as well.  When you start using more than 8 globally unique  
IPv4 addresses, the likelihood
that you are running a substantial network and/or publicly reachable  
servers, etc. goes up dramatically.

> In terms of "checking up on competitors"..... A large part of  
> justification for IP space also has to do with expected upcoming  
> projects.... do you propose that ARIN should also publish  
> organizations future business plans (which would normally be covered  
> by NDA's) for their competitors to "check up" on them as well?
Clearly there are limits and points of diminishing return. Disclosing  
allocations of non-trivial amounts
of IP resources to the community is an entirely reasonable thing and  
provides a good measure of
check and balance capability without being overly burdensome or  

Publishing NDA information about future business plans is obviously  
both invasive and unlikely to
significantly improve the audit capabilities in question.

> ARIN, who has no vested interest in which ISP an individual customer  
> uses already has the capacity to investigate fraud. Why would you  
> vest that responsibility with competitor(s) who would have a vested  
> interest in throwing as many hurdles in front of their competition  
> as possible and who may have serious motivation to misuse such  
> information?
ARIN has very limited resources to identify and investigate fraud.  
Nobody is vesting competitors with responsibility to
investigate fraud, but, some of us are saying that public disclosure  
of IP number resource distribution does aid in
additional public scrutiny which can provide better input to help ARIN  
target their resources in a manner to provide
the greatest public benefit.

> Which would be more likely an ISP using such information to justify  
> an honest complaint of fraud on the part of a competitor or to  
> create a targeted sales list to try to steal the competitors  
> customers?  ARIN's staff has both the capacity and the  
> responsibility to investigate fraud as well as the means for doing  
> something about it and lacks any motivation to use that information  
> for other purposes. An ISP has little real capacity or  
> responsibility to investigate a competitor and lacks the tools to do  
> anything about it other then to ask ARIN to investigate....but has a  
> great deal of motivation to use it for other purposes, does it not?
The former is more likely. The latter is a violation of the WHOIS AUP.

Being able to use the whois data for an ISPs customers as a contrast  
with information from other sources
can, in many cases, significantly improve the quality of the fraud  
reports ARIN receives.


> Christopher Engel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wherrin at gmail.com [mailto:wherrin at gmail.com] On Behalf Of  
> William Herrin
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:58 PM
> To: Chris Engel
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] (no subject)
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Chris Engel  
> <cengel at sponsordirect.com> wrote:
>> I mean how is it neccesary/useful for some-one to know
>> that Block X is owned by ACME Corp at 123 South Main
>> Street, if the entity who is ACTUALY responsible for handling  
>> technical
>> issues for them is Computer Consultants, Inc ?
>> I would think that the information that would be required
>> to address the issue would be...
>> IP Address #: x.x.x.x
>> Tech Contact E-mail:  abuse at ComputerConsultants.com
>> Tech Contact Phone: 1-555-555-5555
>> Why is there a need to publish anything more then that?
> So you can serve them with legal papers.
> So that an ISP who suspects its competitor of fraud can spot-check  
> the competitor's SWIP records against the local business listings  
> and give ARIN a real complaint.
> --
> William D. Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com   
> bill at herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/ 
> > Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
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