[arin-ppml] The AC has a job to do with 2009-1 can you please help?

[Joe Maimon]

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>  
>   
>>> ways to FORCE people OUT of IPv4 because WE HAVE THE MOST 
>>>       
>> TO LOSE IF 
>>     
>>> WE DON'T.
>>>   
>>>       
>> My point was simply that we cannot FORCE anyone to be happy 
>> with IPv6 and cease their demands for IPv4.
>>
>> They will do what they decide they want to do.
>>
>>     
>
> I may desperately want to paint myself purple and run down the
> street naked singing the Free Software Song, but the cost (in
> either jail time of physchological evalution time) may be higher
> than what I would be willing to pay:
>
> http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/features/0,1000002000,2132593,00.htm
>   

Yes, IP address hijackers land up in jail all the time. Especially the 
ones who blatantly disrupt others businesses.

>   
>> We can try to persuade, coax, or be the most tempting and 
>> logical course of action.
>>
>> We have no mechanism to force anyone to cease and desist in 
>> their pursuit for IPv4.
>>
>> We can try to make it unpleasant to to so in our sandbox, but 
>> that may simply create incentive to get us kicked out of said sandbox.
>>
>>     
>
> The question is, how much incentive?
>   

Any avoidable is too much. There are organizations waiting for the excuse.

I could do it right now. Simply grab a bunch of /8's from IANA reserved 
or legacy allocations that arent advertised and set up shop.

Get enough patrons and before you know it, ISP's will route ARIN 
registrations and JOE registrations with equal credibility.

ARIN registrations come with no guarantee of usability and neither do 
JOE's, so whats the difference?

> Suppose we make it unpleasant, so a business that wants more IPv4
> has to go buy a smaller business that's failing, for example, to
> get around the restriction.  Well, that's going to be weighed against
> the cost to convert to IPv6 and use proxies.
>   
Leaving aside the details of the current policy approved method of 
transferring registry acknowledged IP addresses which is likely a lot 
easier than you think, thats not their only option.

They can just participate in black market with either exists or is near 
certain to emerge. Or outright hijacking (same thing different 
perspective). Bringing them into direct confrontation with ARIN and 
other registries.

Confrontations have losers. You are implicitly gambling that it wont 
ever be ARIN.

> they
> trust us geeks of the Internet to do the right thing with IP addressing.
>   

It only appears that way because things seem to be working. If and when 
that changes, they will be trusting their talking heads, who may very 
well be saying that us geeks have done a horrible job and should be the 
ones being lynched.

Even were they to be geeks, what makes you think that its going to be 
Geeks you agree with?
> And the right thing is a small amount of short term pain right now
> to get on to IPv6 to avoid a lot more pain long term.  If we take the
> easy way out and don't do this, I think they will be pretty mad at us
> later on.
>   

Even geeks dont agree on that. I may or may not be a geek, but I 
certainly dont.

I believe it a false dichotomy.

The choice I see is between large amounts of long term pain or small to 
medium amounts of  medium to long term pain.

The optomists who have trumpeted the timely arrival and conversion to 
ipv6 are few and far between these days. It would be a pleasant surprise 
were that vision to come to fruition, but I am not holding my breath.

> Ted
>
>
>