[arin-ppml] 2008-6: Emergency Transfer Policy for IPv4 Addresses

[Scott Leibrand]

I can understand your "leave policy alone" position, but I'm not sure I 
understand how you think current policies and procedures will allow 
legitimate transfers of IP addresses after the IPv4 free pool is 
exhausted, or will otherwise allow ARIN to continue meeting IPv4 demand.

Remember, keeping things the way they are is not an option.  The free pool 
will run out, and we have to decide whether ARIN should continue to make 
IPv4 addresses available after that happens.  If not, no policy change is 
needed.  If so, some new policy will be required.  That could be a 
rationing policy (such as APNIC's "last /8 policy", prop-062, ARIN policy 
proposal 2008-5, which reserves a /10 for allocation as /28-/24's for IPv6 
transition purposes), a transfer policy (such as 2008-2 or 2008-6), and/or 
some other type of reclamation incentive policy (such as Tom Vest has 
proposed).

-Scott

Kevin Kargel wrote:
> I can easily outline a proposal, I don't think ARIN needs to do it.  ARIN is
> already doing the job and doing a darned fine job at that.  
> 
> Things are great the way they are.  We don't need to change it.
> 
> So my outline of a proposal is simple, leave things the way they are,
> dismiss all of the "Emergency" transfer policy proposals.  
> 
> "Effectuating" such transfers is wrong.  There are already ample policies
> and procedures in place to handle the situation. 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Leibrand [mailto:sleibrand at internap.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:56 PM
>> To: Kevin Kargel
>> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2008-6: Emergency Transfer Policy 
>> for IPv4 Addresses
>>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Can you outline a proposal of how you think ARIN should 
>> effectuate such transfers?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Scott
>>
>> Kevin Kargel wrote:
>>>  
>>> Thank you Micheal for your common sense explanations.  I certainly 
>>> agree that the only legitimate way to transfer IP addresses 
>> is through 
>>> the services of the RIR.  Anything else would breed chaos.
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>>>> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of 
>>>> michael.dillon at bt.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:25 PM
>>>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2008-6: Emergency Transfer Policy 
>> for IPv4 
>>>> Addresses
>>>>
>>>>> This is nonsense. Literally. IP address transfer markets are not 
>>>>> derivative markets,
>>>> A derivative is essentially a contract. It is used to buy or sell 
>>>> something, that normally cannot be bought or sold. Yes, it is true 
>>>> that the most common types of derivative contracts are options and 
>>>> futures, but there are many others.
>>>>
>>>>> IP
>>>>> address transfers as proposed by various RIR policy changes
>>>> directly
>>>>> transfer a valuable but intangible asset from one party 
>> to another. 
>>>>> There is no redistribution of risk.
>>>> Given that the RIR policies and registration
>>>> agreements(contracts) all state clearly that IP addresses are not 
>>>> property, I don't see how you can buy or sell the right to 
>> use them 
>>>> other than through a derivative contract. So far, I have seen no 
>>>> policy proposals to change IP addresses into property, and if they 
>>>> are not property, then they cannot be an asset and cannot 
>> be bought 
>>>> or sold.
>>>>
>>>> As for redistribution of risk, that is insurance (or
>>>> reinsurance) and is not an essential component of a derivative 
>>>> contract.
>>>>
>>>>> Let's keep in mind that transfers of IP addresses already
>>>> happen. Are
>>>>> you suggesting that they all be stopped?
>>>> Yes, they should all be stopped. The only legitimate way 
>> to acquire 
>>>> the right to use an IP adress block is to show technical 
>>>> justification to an RIR. The only legitimate transfer of 
>> right to use 
>>>> an address is one that transfers network assets, or one 
>> that has an 
>>>> RIR as one of the two parties.
>>>>
>>>> --Michael Dillon
>>>>
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