[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal 2008-4 - Staff Assessment
packetgrrl at gmail.com
Thu Oct 9 21:35:46 EDT 2008
Although I get what you're saying currently the Arctic Regions aren't asking
for a change in ARIN policy. This proposal was asked for by a specific
subset of our community and it was written in an effort to serve the needs
of that community. I personally feel that the ARIN staff has defined that
region in their response to this proposal. I am not wedded to its name and
if we want to call this policy something else that's fine. I object to
making it a kitchen sink proposal (which will definitely delay this proposal
from approval) that includes segments of the community that didn't ask for
and don't necessarily need this policy.
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 4:20 PM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
> I really liked Michael's Dillon's editorial suggestions from earlier, that
> summarize, and maybe change slightly here;
> 1. Find a different name for it, "Caribbean Region", at least by itself,
> work, maybe "Caribbean Region and assorted islands".
> 2. Add the other assorted islands that are part of the ARIN Region,
> Antarctica too. Basically anything not US and Canada. If this is
> justified for
> the Caribbean, it is justified for these other islands and Antarctica too.
> 3. Explicitly define the Countries and Territories included by official
> I brought up that maybe even the Arctic Regions of the US and Canada
> could be included in the future, but that they should not be included now
> because of the difficulty of finding a workable definition and consensus
> for it.
> Honestly, please lets not even talk about including any part of the US and
> Canada for now. I regret even mentioning the idea earlier, even if it was
> only to say not to do it as it would bog things down.
> So back to what to call this thing; I'm really not sure what the term is
> we are
> talking about here, but it includes factors of Remoteness, Sparsity of
> Population, and Sparsity of Infrastructure. It is really the product of the
> these factors. It is one of those things where I think you know it when
> see it, but you really can't explain it. I haven't found a name for it,
> but maybe
> you could call it an Internet Desert, just a thought, but it doesn't work
> for the
> title of this policy.
> As I said earlier, I support this important policy and call for the
> inclusion of
> these other miscellaneous islands, and including them isn't really a
> change to the concept here.
> David Farmer
> On 9 Oct 2008 Scott Leibrand wrote:
> > Didn't this whole thread start from a staff assessment of which countries
> > and territories would be included? If that definition is accurate and
> > reflects what we want from the policy, then it doesn't seem that any
> > further changes are necessary...
> > -Scott
> > David Williamson wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 01:34:28PM -0400, Leo Bicknell wrote:
> > >> So I don't believe population density has anything to do with the
> > >> problem, and I would not support taking the definition in a direction
> > >> that uses population density as a metric.
> > >
> > > I agree that population density isn't the relevant point, but I don't
> > > think it's as simple as geography either. If it is, what about
> > > something like Catalina Island off of LA? That's clearly not in scope
> > > for this proposal.
> > >
> > > I think the challenges in the Caribbean stem from a combination of
> > > geographic isolation *and* separate political (and regulatory)
> > > environments.
> > >
> > > That said, the proposal is a bit odd geographically. It doesn't
> > > actually contain a definition of who is (and isn't) part of that
> > > region. I assume Bermuda is included, even though it is not notably
> > > close the Caribbean. Politically, Bermuda has much in common with St.
> > > Pierre and Miquelon, although the populations are of different scale.
> > > I couldn't find a definition of "Caribbean region" in a quick search of
> > > the ARIN website either, so this proposal is a bit ambiguous. Does an
> > > ISP in the Florida Keys qualify under this policy? The intent is
> > > clearly to not allow that.
> > >
> > > I support the intent of this policy. I'd prefer to see a policy that
> > > either listed the relevant countries and territories (directly or be
> > > reference to some other document within ARIN), or simply said non-US
> > > and non-Canada portions of the ARIN region.
> > >
> > > -David
> > > _______________________________________________
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> David Farmer Email: farmer at umn.edu
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