[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal: IPv4 Recovery Fund

Kevin Kargel kkargel at polartel.com
Mon Nov 24 14:17:53 EST 2008

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Vest [mailto:tvest at pch.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 1:00 PM
> To: Milton L Mueller
> Cc: Kevin Kargel; arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy Proposal: IPv4 Recovery Fund
> The fallacy that you seek to institutionalize is that "a market" would
> not in itself make IPv4 addresses more expensive.
> We have the secret to the 200mpg car here. If the provider community
> decides to stick with the gas guzzlers, and thereby "allow" the price
> of gas over time to induce the "general public" to select something
> that they don't know about or generally care about, it's not going to
> make for a very pretty story down the line.
> TV
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 1:23 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
> >
> > Kevin Kargel:
> >>
> >> Why are so many people working so hard to make IP as expensive as
> >> possible?
> >
> > The fallacy which you repeat again and again is that allowing market
> > transfers of ipv4 makes ipv4 addresses "more expensive." It does
> > What makes ipv4 addresses expensive is their scarcity (i.e., the
> > existence of more demand for them than supply). The price merely
> > reflects the level of scarcity. Even if there are no visible prices
> > and
> > no organized transfer mechanisms, ipv4 addresses will become "more
> > expensive" in the sense of "harder to get." More resources will have
> > to
> > be expended by ISPs and anyone else to get them. If the transfer
> > processes are poorly organized, nontransparent and based on
> > criteria --THAT is what will make ipv4 addresses more expensive. If
> > there is no economic incentive to return things to availability,
> > will make ipv4 addresses more expensive (harder to get).
> >
> > Milton Mueller
> > Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> > XS4All Professor, Delft University of Technology
> > ------------------------------
> > Internet Governance Project:
> > http://internetgovernance.org
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[Kevin says:] 

Hmm..  explain to me how adding cost, adding administrative burden,
adding profit taking middlemen, increasing complexity and risk all
combine and do not increase cost?  I wish you would apply whatever
principles you use to other retail markets.  It would save us all a lot
of money.

I guess we can take all their money and rationalize that is for their
own good and might make things easier later..  Never mind what they
think, they aren't smart enough to know what's good for them.

Whatever lets you sleep at night I guess..

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