[arin-ppml] Q1 - ARIN address transfer policy: why thetriggerdate?
tedm at ipinc.net
Fri Jun 20 20:44:23 EDT 2008
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jay Sudowski
> - Handy Networks LLC
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 11:21 AM
> To: Owen DeLong; Stephen Sprunk
> Cc: ARIN PPML
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Q1 - ARIN address transfer policy:
> why thetriggerdate?
> For those of you who don't think a rational transfer policy
> is necessary, please consider the following:
> 1. In the real world, many people do not view ARIN postively.
> Business people (CEO types) who run companies that require
> portable IP space view ARIN as overly punative, prohibitive
> gatekeepers to a important resource that they need access to.
> Technicians in that have to deal with ARIN infrequently for
> initial IP allocations, additional allocations, etc hold ARIN
> in the same light. Due to this, if it often easier, far less
> stressful, and far less expensive in time/opportunity cost to
> "purchase" IP space or hire someone to interact with ARIN for
> you. Put simply and bluntly, ARIN is a pain in the ass to deal with.
So what? People don't view the US IRS in a positive light either
and lots would sign on to a movement to get rid of it.
It's a given that a lot of people are stupid, so what?
> 2. I have been aware of people have been buying, selling and
> using subterfuge to obtain IP allocations for as long as I
> have been been in the industry (the past 8 years). Some examples:
> 2a. Three companies merge into one. For many months after
> they merged, they continued to interact with ARIN as separate
> entities, obtaining far more IP allocations than they would
> have been able to as a single entity. Even today, this
> single entity (which has now recently merged again),
> interacts with ARIN using two separate, but related entity
> names and two separate ORG IDs.
> 2b. Every month I run into people who are willing to sell me
> their /18, /19, /20 for a fee. It is my understanding that
> such transactions are usually structured so that other
> [usually worthless] assets or an entire shell entity are
> included in the sale to pass ARIN scrutiny.
> 2c. For a time, I did work for an entity that had previous
> bad blood with ARIN (see point 1) and managed to obtain 3
> /18s on the after market. From what I gather, this is not
> all that unusual.
> 2d. There are consultants out there who, for a fee, guarantee
> you will get an IP allocation from ARIN. They are able to
> accomplish because they control a large amount of IP space
> for entities that they work for, and they SWIP out space from
> those entities to the entity paying them for the direct
> allocation. Bogus data is submitted to ARIN, the SWIP'd
> space supports the bogus allocation, and the allocation is granted.
> 2e. ARIN members continue to report IP usage by customers
> that have long since left their network, inflating their
> actual need and utilization percentages, allowing them to
> obtain unneccesary allocations from ARIN.
> For those of you who want to maintain the status quo, think
> about the above and then think about how the bad actors will
> multiply once IPv4 becomes truly scarce.
Once more, so what?
The brokers out there who are selling IP space won't last long.
When an org that needs IPv4 buys it, they will use it. It will
then no longer be available for resale.
Imagine it this way. There's a lot of bad citizens out there
who get flood damaged cars, spruce them up, then sell them to
victims as new. One day, all the automakers announce that they
are running out of cars, and there won't be any after 2011.
So by 2020 or so, all the cars will be in service or used up
or in wrecking yards. There won't be any left and these
nasty people will have to find some other scam.
> even be a market for IP space, etc. Meanwhile, people
> operating in the real world, will do what they have to do to
> put food on their table and gas in their cars. As such, they
> will continue to do what they are doing today [see 2a-e] and
> will do so with increasing frequncy and neccessity as IP
> depletion becomes reality.
And when all the IPv4 is tied up, then what will these
> The choice should be to either create a framework that
> attemps to define, regulate and bring some transparency an IP
> allocation trading/transfer market or simply come to the
> realization that the existing IP address marketplace, which
> exists in the hidden corners of the Internet, will continue
> to function and evolve as depletion comes closer and closer
> to reality.
I've already come to the realization that the existing IP address
marketplace, which exists in the hidden corners of the Internet,
will continue to function. But I've also come to the realization
that it won't function very long after the RIR's run out of IPv4.
So why should we help it out any?
Once again, how does it help me to assist in stretching out IPv4?
Everything you have said simply tells me that the more effort I
put into helping prolong IPv4 post-runout, the more power and
authority I give into the hands of these bad people who you seem
to think are going to run IPv4 allocations in the hidden corners
of the Internet.
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