[ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois

Dave Heritage dave at onxinc.com
Fri Jan 11 16:10:40 EST 2008 

Couldn't the policy be revised such that 'just like in the case of a
residential customer' the Address and name of record are
'Customer#147387 in care of ISP'? That way the basis of anonymity on a
wide scale is intact while those at ARIN could request non-public data
for justification if necessary (from the ISP doing the sub-alloc).
Obviously the user of the IP space is going to have given over more
specific details of the entity for billing purposes.  It seems to me it
would affect both directions of the transaction.  The published data
would be of little use to a would-be harmer but people who needed to
actually contact the owner would have a known good go-between.

Dave


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To: ppml at arin.net
Subject: PPML Digest, Vol 31, Issue 12

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re:  /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois
      (Divins, David)
   2. Re: /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois (Divins, David)
   3. Re: /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois (Keith W. Hare)
   4. Re: /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois (Divins, David)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:36:45 -0500
From: "Divins, David" <dsd at servervault.com>
Subject: Re: [ppml] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re:  /29 limit for ARIN SWIP
	whois
To: "Kevin Kargel" <kkargel at polartel.com>, <ppml at arin.net>
Message-ID:
	<F8B974E70BDE1745ABB27AF04788FA00049E7220 at mail1.dulles.sv.int>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

ARIN requires re-assignment name and address in addition to POC e-mail
for reassignments.  You can leave them blank but then you are non-ARIN
compliant per RSA.

-dsd

David Divins
Principal Engineer
ServerVault Corp.

-----Original Message-----
From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of
Kevin Kargel
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:06 AM
To: ppml at arin.net
Subject: ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois

in.re. battered women and other fugitives..

The only traceable thing absolutely required for a SWIP POC is a working
email address, and you can even use a hotmail account for that.  Under
US law (as an example and because I am even more ignorant of other law)
there is nothing illegal about supplying an alias for registrations like
this so long as you are not trying to defraud. You can give the POC any
mailing address in the world, it doesn't have to be your place of
residence or the service site, and the telephone number is not a
required field.  Nobody says you have to have telephone service to use
the internet (and yes, there are still people in the world who are
unable to or choose not to have telephone service).  

I don't think anyone will deny that there are lawful people who are also
odd, eccentric and/or paranoid using the internet.  I fully support a
persons right to be odd, eccentric or paranoid (for obvious reasons that
will hopefully remain unstated..  lol).  

Anonymity can be maintained even if you do utilize SWIP registration.
The current IP registration system is very anarchist friendly, and IMHO
that is a very good thing.

Kevin

:$s/worry/happy/g 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf 
> Of Paul G. Timmins
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:36 AM
> To: Leo Bicknell; Public Policy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois
> 
> Where are all these battered wives and grandmas who are getting /29s 
> from their upstreams? I'm still trying to figure this out.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On 
> Behalf Of Leo Bicknell
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:50 PM
> To: Public Policy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois
> 
> In a message written on Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 05:15:35PM 
> -0500, Eastman, Bruce wrote:
> > I don't mean this to be insulting by any means, but I have seen you 
> > mention Lynch mobs and vigilante justice on here a few different
> times,
> > I am just curious to know if there have ever been any documented 
> > instances where vigilante justice has taken place over the issue of 
> > spamming, and if so, was the victim actually found by information 
> > provided in the whois data base?
> 
> If you're looking for direct evidence of someone murdering a 
> spammer and then standing up and saying "I used ARIN's whois 
> database to find them" then no, I can provide no direct evidence.
> 
> I also want to stress the issue is not just vigilante mobs 
> going against spammers though.  All the reasons people hate 
> each other apply in the cyber world as well.  And it's not 
> just vigilante mobs, it's also lone individual harasser.
> 
> Consider cyberstalking, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking.
> Has there ever been a case where a predator used whois data 
> to help locate a victim?  When a battered woman moves across 
> country and signs up for new internet access is there 
> adequate disclosure from the provider her name address and 
> phone number may be listed in a global, public database?  If 
> her ex finds her through that information and kills her, is 
> the ISP, or even ARIN partially liable?
> 
> To bring back a golden oldie: McGruff.org has "stay safe online"
> recommendations: http://www.mcgruff.org/Advice/online_safety.php
> 
>    "Never give out personal information like your name, 
> telephone number,
>     address, email, or school name."
> 
> How many kids are giving out their name, address, and 
> telephone number just by surfing the web from an IP with 
> fairly specific whois information?  Who's using that 
> information, and for what purpose?
> 
> The sad part of all of this is the victims aren't going to 
> speak up.  Spammers who have people come to their house and 
> make a death threat aren't going to go to the police.  
> Battered women who need to remain anonymous to stay away from 
> their ex aren't going to write front page articles on CNN 
> about how their privacy was compromised.
> Child predators aren't going to let the world know whois is a 
> goldmine for them.
> 
> What percentage of people who buy service from a provide who 
> lists their details in whois know that is the case?
> 
> I can buy a phone line for home and have it be unlisted.  I can buy
> 5 phone lines for home and have them be unlisted.  I can buy 
> 500 phone lines for home and have them be unlisted.  Yet, to 
> participate in the Internet at anything more than a basic 
> level I must provide my information to the entire world?
> 
> -- 
>        Leo Bicknell - bicknell at ufp.org - CCIE 3440
>         PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG 
> List - tmbg-list-request at tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org 
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
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> 
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:37:52 -0500
From: "Divins, David" <dsd at servervault.com>
Subject: Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois
To: "Keith W. Hare" <Keith at jcc.com>, <ppml at arin.net>
Message-ID:
	<F8B974E70BDE1745ABB27AF04788FA00049E7221 at mail1.dulles.sv.int>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Would you support a proposal to change current ARIN SWIP policy (in
general)?

If more than the 4 or 5 that have shown support chime in, I may draft a
proposal.

-dsd

David Divins
Principal Engineer
ServerVault Corp.
(703) 652-5955
-----Original Message-----
From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of
Keith W. Hare
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:21 AM
To: ppml at arin.net
Subject: ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois

After all this discussion and hyperbole, is there an actual proposal to
change the current ARIN SWIP whois policy?

Keith
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:36:21 -0500
From: "Keith W. Hare" <Keith at jcc.com>
Subject: Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois
To: "Divins, David" <dsd at servervault.com>, <ppml at arin.net>
Cc: "Keith W. Hare" <Keith at jcc.com>
Message-ID: <3381b21cdc7c5467cc06dc4909fcb7be47868fdb at jcc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

David,

The advantage of a proposal is it would put the proposed change, the
existing stuff, and the logic for the change in one place. This would
make it easier to have a real discussion of the the technical
merits/issues.

In the absence of real knowledge, my current opinion is that it doesn't
make sense to change this for IPv4, but it might for IPv6.  However, I
reserve the right to change my mind.

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: Divins, David [mailto:dsd at servervault.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:38 PM
To: Keith W. Hare; ppml at arin.net
Subject: Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois

Would you support a proposal to change current ARIN SWIP policy (in
general)?

If more than the 4 or 5 that have shown support chime in, I may draft a
proposal.

-dsd

David Divins
Principal Engineer
ServerVault Corp.
(703) 652-5955
-----Original Message-----
From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of
Keith W. Hare
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:21 AM
To: ppml at arin.net
Subject: ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois

After all this discussion and hyperbole, is there an actual proposal to
change the current ARIN SWIP whois policy?

Keith
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:57:06 -0500
From: "Divins, David" <dsd at servervault.com>
Subject: Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois
To: "Joe Maimon" <jmaimon at ttec.com>
Cc: ppml at arin.net
Message-ID:
	<F8B974E70BDE1745ABB27AF04788FA00049E7269 at mail1.dulles.sv.int>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Joe,

In your ideal world, what would your bit boundry be? And then what about
your compromise world :-)

Thanks,
dsd

David Divins
Principal Engineer
ServerVault Corp.
(703) 652-5955

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Maimon [mailto:jmaimon at ttec.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:47 AM
To: Divins, David
Cc: Keith W. Hare; ppml at arin.net
Subject: ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois

If the proposal was to remove or change the bit limits for SWIP, without
changing any of the current requirements, yes.

In fact I was considering trying my hand at drafting such myself.


Divins, David wrote:

> Would you support a proposal to change current ARIN SWIP policy (in 
> general)?
> 
> If more than the 4 or 5 that have shown support chime in, I may draft 
> a proposal.
> 
> -dsd
> 
> David Divins
> Principal Engineer
> ServerVault Corp.
> (703) 652-5955
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf 
> Of Keith W. Hare
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:21 AM
> To: ppml at arin.net
> Subject: ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [ppml] /29 limit for ARIN SWIP whois
> 
> After all this discussion and hyperbole, is there an actual proposal 
> to change the current ARIN SWIP whois policy?
> 
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN 
> Public Policy Mailing List (PPML at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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> Please contact the ARIN Member Services Help Desk at info at arin.net if 
> you experience any issues.
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN 
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you experience any issues.
> 
> 


------------------------------

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