[arin-ppml] Privacy rights & IP number whois ( was Re: The LRSA $100 fee...)

Tom Vest tvest at pch.net
Sun Aug 31 16:24:28 EDT 2008

Hi Milton,

A couple of quick questions:

1. Do you think that the completeness and accuracy of current DNS  
whois is the right standard for IP number whois?

2. Does your vision for individual privacy rights extend to "corporate  
persons," or only to natural persons?
-- It would appear that you reject the distinction in DNS whois:



On Aug 31, 2008, at 1:31 PM, Tom Vest wrote:

> On Aug 31, 2008, at 12:34 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> Notice how Lee specifically mentioned whois -- that's one feature  
>>> that
>>> obviously can be (has been?) eroded by race-to-the-bottom  
>>> competition.
>> DNS Whois? If you are referring to the efforts of individuals to
>> retrieve their privacy rights via proxy registration services, I  
>> don't
>> see that as a race to the bottom but as a significant response to  
>> human
>> rights concerns and legitimate demand.
>> If you are referring to the quality of data in your run-of-the-mill
>> Whois registration, there has been significant improvement since  
>> 1999.
>> Whois is a uniform contractual requirement and new enforcement
>> mechanisms for reporting and correcting data accuracy have been
>> instituted.
>> Sorry to spoil your points with facts.
> Facts?! If you are referring to your latest ad hoc substitution of  
> what we were previously talking about by something you'd be more  
> comfortable talking about, I don't see that as meriting the  
> indulgence of a serious response here.
> But I'll grant a partial indulgence anyway. "Improvement since 1999"  
> is a clever way of phrasing the answer, since that could be said of  
> any change that improves matters the tiniest bit, e.g., from 91% to  
> 92% accuracy, or from 1% to 2% accuracy.
> Which one is closer to true?
> GAO 06-165, November 2005:
> Prevalence of False Contact Information for Registered Domain Names
> http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06165.pdf
> But you don't really care about competition or accuracy in this  
> case, do you? You tipped your hand a little too much with the  
> attempted redirection to "retrieval of privacy rights," whatever  
> that means. Be honest Milton, if you value personal privacy above  
> all other values, isn't falsification of whois just one acceptable  
> means to a greater end?
>> But its difficult not to be struck with the tendency to blame  
>> problems
>> that have nothing to do with competition on "competition."
> It's also not difficult to be struck by the behavior of someone who  
> only has one tool -- ala a child with a hammer.
> They're the ones wandering around bashing everything the exact same  
> way, as if every other object in the world is a nail.
> TV
> P.S. we can talk about this at TPRC too, or at ARIN XXII if you're  
> also planning to be there.

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