[arin-ppml] Results of Transfer Proposal Survey

Kevin Kargel kkargel at polartel.com
Wed Aug 27 10:01:25 EDT 2008


 I am strongly opposed to any form of free market trading of IP addresses.  

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
Behalf Of Bill Darte
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:00 PM
To: Ted Mittelstaedt; Member Services; arin-ppml at arin.net;
arin-announce at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Results of Transfer Proposal Survey

No-one had to answer any question...therefore the could have skipped to the
bottom and said NO....

but....to ask the question....

All those against a liberalized transfer policy of any kind...please reply
saying so...

Bill Darte
ARIN AC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:55 PM
> To: 'Member Services'; arin-ppml at arin.net; arin-announce at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Results of Transfer Proposal Survey
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
> > [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Member Services
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:37 AM
> > To: arin-ppml at arin.net; arin-announce at arin.net
> > Subject: [arin-ppml] Results of Transfer Proposal Survey
> > 
> > 
> > Subscribers to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List were invited to 
> > participate last week in a policy proposal survey. The ARIN
> Advisory
> > Council, working on an update to Policy Proposal 2008-2,
> IPv4 Transfer
> > Policy Proposal, sponsored the survey in order to gain additional 
> > input.
> >  
> > Two hundred plus subscribers to the mail list participated. 
> > The results
> > of the survey are available on the ARIN website at:  
> > http://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/surveys/
> > and in pdf  version at: 
> > http://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/surveys/pdfs/survey_summa
> ry_08242008.pdf
> 
> 
> >This input will be added to that gained during the ARIN XXI
> meeting in
> >Denver, the Caribbean sector meeting in Jamaica and the upcoming 
> >Caribbean sector meeting in the Bahamas. Additional
> discussion of the
> >proposal will take place at the ARIN XXII Public Policy and Members 
> >Meeting being held 15-17 October in Los Angeles, California.
> 
> >Please note that the Advisory Council continues to seek
> input on this
> >issue.
> 
> This survey was biased from the beginning - it omitted one key 
> question at the beginning:  Do you want a liberalized transfer policy 
> at all?  That is why the number of persons responding from the PPL was 
> so small - 11% - because if you were opposed a liberalized policy, you 
> could see where the survey was going and undoubtedly most people 
> opposed to a liberalized policy abandoned the survey before 
> completion.
> 
> It's actually much more significant that question 11 had a 13% NO 
> response!  Since the survey was SO biased, it's amazing that that many 
> people opposed to a liberalized policy actually made it through the 
> survey at all!
> 
> Where the usefulness of this survey is, though, is in telling us WHO 
> is making up the pro-liberalization camp.
> 
> The significant responses are as follows:
> 
> Question 11:  86% in favor.  OK well we already knew that because very 
> few people opposing liberalized transfers would be completing the 
> survey after getting to this question.
> 
> Question 10:  80% in favor.  What this tells us is that those in favor 
> of liberalization want the "RIR stamp of approval"
> on their transaction.  One more, this is a no-brainer; it should have 
> been obvious prior to the survey that people calling for a "legacy 
> number broker" separate from the RIR were the fringe element.
> 
> Neither 11 or 10 tell us anything we don't already know and are more 
> distractor questions than anything else.
> 
> Question 9:  53% in favor of limiting multiple requests, 47% against.  
> This is where it gets interesting - what this is telling us is that 
> the pro-liberalized transfer camp is itself split over the idea of 
> allowing freewheeling-and-dealing of
> IPv4 numbers.
> 
> Question 8: 58% for current holders being allowed limited 
> deaggregation, the rest want no limits.  This is also indicative of 
> that split in the pro-liberalized transfer camp.
> What it is telling us is HOW each camp wants things to proceed.
> 
> The pro-wheeling-and-dealing camp are speculators - their aim is to 
> make a lot of money brokering large blocks, splitting them up, and 
> selling them.  Any kind of restrictions would crimp their plans.  But 
> they are in the minority.  The bulk of the pro-liberalized transfer 
> folks are just wanting to make money off holdings that they have, but 
> aren't using, or have but could easily give up by renumbering.  They 
> want limited deaggregation because that is all they need - and since 
> they are planning on staying in the game long-haul, they don't want to 
> screw themselves by allowing unlimited growth of routing entries in 
> the BGP table.
> 
> Question 7: 74% in favor of ARIN having control over limiting 
> deaggregation.  Once more, a no-brainer.  These are the same folks who 
> want ARIN's blessing in Question #10.  Why would you be in favor of 
> having ARIN operating a listing service but not giving them control 
> over the stuff listed on it?
> That's why the % split on this question was within a few points of the 
> split on #10
> 
> Question 6: 71% in favor of prequals on need.  No brainer here.
> This is basically a restatement of the idea in #7 and #10 - give ARIN 
> control.
> 
> Question 5: Nearly even split on prequals of address holders wanting 
> to sell space.  This basically indicates the level of discomfort of 
> the pro-liberalization camp who are NOT speculators.  Obviously if 
> you're a speculator then you don't care where the IPv4 is coming from, 
> whether the holder meets prequal or not.  The only people who would 
> care are the ones who are pro-liberalization only for the reason that 
> they want to see more space freed up, or perhaps sell off some of 
> their own holdings.  The majority of -those- people are not happy with 
> the idea of allowing un-prequalified people out there selling off 
> IPv4.
> 
> Question 4:  Uninteresting question - nobody cares what happens after 
> the deal is done.
> 
> Question 3:  This is like Question 9 and 8 - it merely shows the split 
> in the pro-liberalization camp, but it does indicate the bulk of the 
> speculators are coming from the legacy arena because obviously if 
> legacy holders didn't make up a large number of survey respondents, 
> they wouldn't care if the legacy holders were shafted by an LRSA and 
> the response would throw the legacy holders under the bus by a 
> stronger majority voting yes.
> 
> Question 2: No brainer, basically a restatement of question #11
> 
> Question 1: Expiration date.  This is like 9, 8 and 3.  It shows the 
> split in the pro-liberalization camp.  Obviously, speculators aren't 
> going to want an expiration date of the liberalized policy.  But the 
> non-speculators in favor of a liberalized policy are more evenly split 
> on the idea of an expiration date.
> 
> In summary, while the survey illustrated the internal split within the 
> pro-liberalization camp, it still doesen't tell us what is really 
> important - how many people really are in favor of a liberalized 
> policy.  It in no way indicates that there is a majority of people in 
> favor of a liberalized transfer policy.
> 
> A more even-handed and unbiased survey would have been more useful.
> 
> Ted
> 
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