[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal: Whois Integrity Policy Proposal

William Herrin bill at herrin.us
Wed Aug 20 12:34:00 EDT 2008

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 8:42 PM, Paul Vixie <vixie at isc.org> wrote:
>> From: "William Herrin" <bill at herrin.us>
>> The LRSA should be structured so that it serves as a strong check on
>> ARIN's -future- actions with repspect to the legacy registrations.  It
>> doesn't make the grade. A properly motivated ARIN board would have
>> sufficient legal wiggle room to do just about anything they wanted to the
>> legacy registrants with no recourse on the registrants part, exactly as
>> is the case for modern end-user registrants.  Give the legacy registrant
>> the power to terminate the contract and the possibility of adverse action
>> by ARIN can never become a serious threat.
> let me start by arguing the opposite.  if you think that address holders are
> a necessary check+balance on ARIN misbehaviour, then you should be arguing
> that ALL address holders must have this role, legacy and non-legacy alike.


On another day I may well make that argument. Today I have a different
focus. The focus is this:

If you (meaning ARIN) believe it desirable to bring the legacy
registrants into the fold, you really have two options:

1. Do it substantially on their terms.
2. Do it by soliciting sufficient legal authority for ICANN from the
USG so that "the community," by way of ARIN, can force the issue.

Pick your poison.

We can argue about it on PPML for the next ten years but the bottom
line is this: the legacy registrants will come into the fold either
when they're forced to or when they see an offer they like. At the
moment, you haven't enough authority to force the issue without making
a mess that hurts you and the community as much as or more than it
hurts the legacy registrants. And you haven't made the legacy
registrants an offer they like.

> let me finish by saying that ARIN's policies are what the community makes.
> there's no way for the board or AC or staff, or any national government, to
> ram policies down the community's throat, or withhold approval or execution
> of policies that the community has created.  if LRSA is wrong, then submit
> a policy process to fix it.

As I recall, the community's involvement with the LRSA started and
stopped with proposing that one exist. From there it was taken behind
closed doors and ratified in substantially the same form as it was
first presented.

And frankly that's probably OK. It isn't within the purview of the
public policy process to write ARIN's contract documents. The best any
of us can really do is draw your attention to clauses that might be

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 1:40 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:
>> > Thus, how exactly would this legacy resource holder system be any
>> > different than what the legacy resource holders have right now with
>> > the ARIN legacy RSA?
>> It would be terminable in the event of a dispute. The
>> practical effect of the LRSA language is that its not
>> terminable by the registrant.
> So then, is a legacy holder wants to opt out of it due
> to disputing it, they can.  In which case the legacy
> holder system admin would pull their names out from
> their system and it seems your right back where you started
> with the same problem.
> How is that better?

Because it tends not to happen. The system admin has a pretty good
idea which behaviors will cause more than a handful of registrants to
jump ship, so he avoids those behaviors even when he really really
doesn't want to. It's called "checks and balances." It helps keep
people honest.

> What is the point of signing a contract that has no teeth?

Excellent question but it cuts both ways. With the LRSA, we know what
teeth bite the registrant if he doesn't uphold his end: he loses his
addresses. What teeth bite ARIN if they don't uphold theirs? What's
ARIN's penalty for trying to skirt the edge of what the contract
allows? Without as strong a penalty as the registrant faces for
failing to uphold his end, the LRSA is lopsided even before you
consider the beneficial status the legacy registrant holds if he signs
no contract.

Bill Herrin

William D. Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us
3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/>
Falls Church, VA 22042-3004

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