[ppml] FW: No transfer policies are needed

Edward Lewis Ed.Lewis at neustar.biz
Mon Apr 21 12:51:14 EDT 2008

At 6:06 -0500 4/20/08, Bill Darte wrote:

>So, I guess I come down this way (at least that's where the pendulum is now)

>  As such, ARIN will declare its disdain for fees for transfer, encouraging
>  instead, the return of address resources to ARIN for reallocation/assignment
>  within the ARIN region or to other RIRs having need...as the ARIN 
>  may direct.  As such, ARIN will neither recognize/capture nor analyze
>  financial information that may be reported with such transfers.

I don't think that the above will work.  Voluntarily doing anything 
runs afoul of any profit motivated enterprise.  I don't mean 
"volunteering" as in sponsoring "green events", I mean assigning a 
task to someone to do what might be a no-cost/no-revenue effort.

One issue is the difference between "community" and "industry." 
Community has a lot of good things going for it - like cooperation, 
innovation, participation, etc. - but usually this means energy 
pouring into the enterprise.  Because most of the invisible work is 
the work going in (the benefits are usually obvious) attention is 
paid to being a good neighbor.  Industry looks at generating more 
output and all the attention goes there, how the output is generated 
only matters when it comes to trying to maximize the profit (increase 
in value).

Putting currency units on numbering resources is something I fear. 
Sure IPv4 is limited, but it sets the stage for IPv6 trading later, 
perhaps, or 2-byte AS numbers.  Being that I work for the North 
American Numbering Plan Administrator I am curious what happens to 
telephone numbers.  (I need to ask.)  I doubt that there would ever 
be a "monetization" of them because of the heavy regulation already 
in place.

I don't think ARIN could ever stick to a line of "tell folks to be 
more efficient, they'll return what they don't need."  Especially if 
what they have is unencumbered (=legacy?) space.  What's lacking is:

1) ARIN seems to rarely force someone to give up space.  I don't 
recall knowing if anyone has ever been evicted (or evicted for causes 
of not using what they have).  I.e., ARIN doesn't seem like a 
"heavy." (Bouncer, enforcer, etc.)

2) ARIN isn't commissioned by a governmental authority, isn't backed 
by the threat of jail time for those violating regulations.

3) People with address space may not be "holding it" for anticipated 
monetary gain, they might just have it but are reluctant to learn 
about giving it up.

I've worked a long time in "industry" and not so much in "community." 
What I've learned is that for any idea to get traction it has to have 
a price tag attached to it.  When I worked for a gov't agency in 
about 'x4 I decided we should have asset tags on out 10BaseT hubs. 
The property was already installed and humming and in use but somehow 
slipped under the procurement dept. radar.  My boss asked "why 
bother?" - to me, well, it was something to do (I had the time and 
the patience for bureaucracy).  But it wasn't until I put a dollar 
amount on the untagged equipment (over a half million US dollars) 
that he let me spend the few hours to put in the paperwork.

The reason for his reluctance wasn't just my time.  It kicked in a 
whole support team behind the tagging and inventory process.  For a 
few items, it wasn't important that "assets" were unaccounted for. 
But for a half million bucks, it plugged up a gap in his reporting.

Money motivation is important.  That's because the community of ARIN 
is at least partly-to-mostly made of industry players.  Industry 
players are mostly not engineers.  They are managers and bookkeepers 
(& etc.).  Those folks come to work for the salary, not for the fun 
of "plugging things into walls or plugging things into things that 
plug into walls."  (Latter quote is from a wife describing her 
gadget-loving-engineer spouse's hobby.)

What I want to see happen is setting up a mechanism (market/trading 
floor) which assigns no value to the goods being moved but puts a 
value on the movement of the goods.  We want to wake up those 
sleeping on /16's and tell them it's good to lose a few of them.  The 
money is needed to motivate the transfer.

I don't know if what I want is possible or distinguishable from 
placing a value on a 32-bit number.  But that's what I think is 
needed.  ARIN isn't going to hit folks with a switch (not a router 
thingy, a reedy whip in this case) and make them free up what's not 
being efficiently used.  And ARIN isn't going to layout a "IPs for 
dollars" program.  All I can imagine is allowing seekers of address 
space to go after holders with wads of loonies and greenbacks...

>  2.  The transfer services should be conducted for a limited period of time,
>  with the sunset established upon expected adoption rates of IPv6.

I've never seen a sunset time work.
Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468

Never confuse activity with progress.  Activity pays more.

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