[ppml] Revision to 2008-3

[Josh King]

David Farmer wrote:
> On 2 Apr 2008 Owen DeLong wrote:
> 
>> I absolutely think that it is vital to be more specific for this policy.
> ...
> 
> I have no problem being specific.  I have a problem thinking that you are 
> being specific by referencing sections of US Tax Code. First, its not valid 
> outside the US. Second, it make ARIN policy changeable by the US 
> Congress, probably a bad idea on multiple fronts.  Referencing a 501(c)3  
> organization as an example of an organization that would likely meet the 
> requirements is probably acceptable.
> 
>> Here's a stab at a statement that describes what I feel should be  
>> included:
>>
>> To qualify as a community network under ARIN policy, the network must
>> be owned and operated by an organization which is organized and/or
>> chartered as a not-for-profit which is engaged in providing the service
>> to the benefit of the local community at large and not limited to any
>> subclass of the community by religion, union membership, pension
>> status, or any other form of membership requirement other than if
>> such membership is open to all members of the community with
>> equal voting status and control of the organization at a cost
>> which would not reasonably be considered prohibitive to any person
>> living above the locally defined poverty level.
>>
>> This probably needs a lot of work, but, it's the best I could do without
>> copying the tax code and I'm not willing to do that at 3:15 AM (which
>> is the local time here at the moment).
> 
> I like what I see, no references to US Tax Code and personally I don't think I 
> can complain about the specifics, however I do have a question and some 
> scenarios for you to think about;
> 
> So you are saying that a Community Network must be incorporated for that 
> purpose?  Or could other non-profit organizations incubate a Community 
> Network and then spin it out as a separate organization at a future date, or 
> run it for ever as a D.B.A (Doing Business As).   
> 
> I was thinking that maybe some other community based organization should 
> be allowed to sponsor a Community Network and act as the legal entity that 
> can sign contracts on it behalf, with ARIN, etc...  I know several Universities 
> and other organizations that are doing this or that have done this kind of 
> thing in the past.  In fact much of the early Internet worked this way.  
> 
> A hypothetical example; let's say the Minneapolis Chamber of Commerce, 
> wanted to sponsor the creation of a Minneapolis Community Network, and 
> basically started it as a D.B.A, community members run it, CoC is simply 
> acting as the legal shell for doing business.  And for sake of discussion lets 
> say the CoC is organized as a 501(c)6, I have no idea if this is the case or 
> not the Minneapolis Chamber of Commerce might be a 501(c)3 for all I 
> know.
> 
> Another hypothetical example; let's say the University of Minnesota wanted 
> to sponsor the creation of a Minneapolis Community Network, and basically 
> started it as a D.B.A, community members run it, UMN is simply acting as 
> the legal shell for doing business.  And for discussion UMN is not a 501(c)3, 
> it is a Constitutional Corporation of the State of Minnesota, making it a 
> political sub-division of state government, in this case I know this to be a 
> fact.
> 
> Just to be clear these are completely hypothetical, at least as far as I know, 
> Minneapolis has a Public/Private partnership delivering community WIFI 
> service already.  And it is function as a LIR I believe, and not really the type 
> of thing this policy is intended for.
In fact most of the community networks that I've encountered have
existed as something other than a fully incorporated 501(c)3. Many are
working groups of larger organizations or are fiscally sponsored by
them. I have no problem with the idea that they should be
not-for-profit, but I agree that a degree of flexibility is in order.
> 
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2008, at 11:38 PM, David Farmer wrote:
>>
>>> I will add that 501(c)3 is only one, the most general and common,  
>>> form of a
>>> non-profit organization recognized by USIRC, several other 501(c)
>>> organizations could legitimately sponsor a Community Network,  
>>> including a
>>> 501(c)6 Chamber of Commerce, 501(c)7 Recreational club, just to name a
>>> few other possibilities.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)
>>>
>>> Further, I could easily see a city or other political sub-division  
>>> of government
>>> sponsoring a Community Network too, and they are not covered by  
>>> 501(c) at
>>> all.  So even if you are only dealing with the US, I think  
>>> specifying 501(c)3
>>> would not be a good idea.  Then if you bring in other countries you  
>>> probably
>>> can't be more specific than non-profit or not-for-profit.
>>>
>>> On 1 Apr 2008 Ray Plzak wrote:
>>>
>>>> Owen,
>>>>
>>>> An observation. The ARIN region consists of more countries than the
>>>> US, hence citing sections of the US tax code is probably not a good
>>>> thing to do. I see that you have included the phrase "or local
>>>> equivalent" but that is not necessarily clear. Perhaps, simply  
>>>> stating
>>>> not for profit would be sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> Ray
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On  
>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Owen DeLong
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:36 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>        +       IRS 501(c)3 or local equivalent not for profit status
>>>>> (501(c)5
>>>>>                should not qualify in my opinion).
>>>>>
>>>
>>> =================================================
>>> David Farmer				Email:	farmer at umn.edu
>>> Office of Information Technology
>>> University of Minnesota			Phone:	612-626-0815
>>> 2218 University Ave SE			Cell:	612-812-9952
>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029		FAX:	612-626-1818
>>> =================================================
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> =================================================
> David Farmer				Email:	farmer at umn.edu
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota			Phone:	612-626-0815
> 2218 University Ave SE			Cell:	612-812-9952
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029		FAX:	612-626-1818
> =================================================
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
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-- 
Josh King
--
josh at acornactivemedia.com
--
Senior Network Engineer, Acorn Active Media
(http://www.acornactivemedia.com)
System Administrator, Chambana.net (http://www.chambana.net)
--
"I am an Anarchist not because I believe Anarchism is the final goal,
but because there is no such thing as a final goal." -Rudolf Rocker


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