[ppml] IPv6 assignment - proposal for change to nrpm

Stephen Sprunk stephen at sprunk.org
Mon Oct 29 19:44:07 EDT 2007

Thus spake "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at ipinc.net>
>>> Although we (the small SP's) have signed a v6 RSA, are we
>>> going to get the same ridicule and harassment in the future that
>>> the Legacy IPv4 folk are seeing today?
>>The "ridicule and harassment" is coming from a very small group
>>of unfortunately vocal people.  The rest of us are trying to be polite
>>and merely ask that legacy folks give back what they don't need
>>(even using very liberal definitions of "need").
> The devil is in the definition of need.
> I have 10 point to point T1s.  I need 10 IPv4 /24s since I assign a
> /24 to each circuit.  That is the problem, you see.

I have no pity for people doing that; RIPv2 has been out for a long, long 
time, and RIPv1 was the last reasonable excuse for doing things that way. 
There are few reasons, other than the intentional waste (or hoarding) of 
addresses, to assign more than a /30 to a PTP link.  Unfortunately, many 
vendors are still clueless about /31s, or I'd revise that statement even 

> "Need" is elastic.  If someone is fighting for every /24 they can
> get, they might even be using unnumbered, grudging even 4 IP
> addresses for their point to point links.

There are legitimate technical reasons for not using unnumbered.

> I just did a support call this morning with a customer who has a
> site down in SBCGlobal territory.  They needed a static IP on a
> DSL line.  They were assigned a /29.  ...  It's incredibly wasteful.

Perhaps there are technical reasons you're not privvy to; perhaps it's waste 
or hoarding.  Either way, it's close enough for us to not quibble over 
here -- though presumably ARIN staff would require a justification for such 
when their next request comes in.

If you want to talk about waste, look at the folks with a /8 (or two) who 
could likely fit into a handful of /16s, or the folks with dozens of /16s 
who only use a single /24 outside of 10/8.

>>If we did a straw poll of folks favoring carrots vs. sticks, I'm quite
>>sure the former would outnumber the latter by an overwhelming
> In a perfect world, yes.  But when you actually start LOOKING at
> what the hell is HAPPENING out in the real world you will turn up
> PLENTY of stories like the one I just cited, and I think you will be
> getting the sticks out and tossing the carrots a lot faster than
> you think.

I've seen plenty of horrifying examples, though NDAs prevent me from naming 
names.  However, I know better than to think that all, or even the majority 
of, legacy holders deserved to be tarred with that brush; many have been 
quite willing to voluntarily return space they don't need.  So far, just 
asking politely has netted ARIN quite a number of returned blocks -- and 
threats have, so far, netted the community nothing but a bunch of animosity 
and/or fear.  I'm in favor of what gets us the most productive results for 
the least effort.  Making enemies of people we want something from is not 
helpful on either front.


Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking 

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